[shakerz]

Will also still buy a March or April 70 block 2 or 4 bolt.
Heads could also be first week of April.

Steve

806-433-7469

[unruhjonny]

This post is help, and give you a bump;
Do you know if any were cast in March?
that would be a "C--0" date;
I have seen pleany of "J--9", some "A--0", and a fair number of "D--0", but cannot immediately recall seeing any "C--0" heads...

it seems that casting dates don't always have a specific correlation to one another, and I have read here that parts were cast in large batches - in some cases they waited several months (longer than you would think) to be used - while yet other times it seems like they immediately received finishing machining ect, were assembled, and sent to a vehicle assembly plant...

[shakerz]

Great post Johnny. I can’t find any March heads either but have seen several April cast dates as you said. I wonder what the last month before April 70 was that any heads were stamped.

[FASTASSBIRD]

Originally Posted by shakerz

Great post Johnny. I can’t find any March heads either but have seen several April cast dates as you said. I wonder what the last month before April 70 was that any heads were stamped.

All march built ram air motors I’ve seen that are original, have end of Jan start of feb heads with March intakes


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[FASTASSBIRD]

Originally Posted by FASTASSBIRD

All march built ram air motors I’ve seen that are original, have end of Jan start of feb heads with March intakes


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I still haven’t seen an original motor for a car built before 4A (my car is a 4A car so my research is based on that) with March heads. Most have last week of Jan date codes. That being said........

70 Ram Air 3 code 12 heads. Never been shaved never been ported hot tanked and magnafluxed by Paul at Integrity Automotive. 0 cracks very nice condition. Located on Northwest side of Chicago local pickup only please.

Date code ; A280
C030
Pete 773-698-5089


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[FASTASSBIRD]

Originally Posted by FASTASSBIRD

I still haven’t seen an original motor for a car built before 4A (my car is a 4A car so my research is based on that) with March heads. Most have last week of Jan date codes. That being said........

70 Ram Air 3 code 12 heads. Never been shaved never been ported hot tanked and magnafluxed by Paul at Integrity Automotive. 0 cracks very nice condition. Located on Northwest side of Chicago local pickup only please.

Date code ; A280
C030
Pete 773-698-5089


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He’s asking 700 bucks. They look VERY nice


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[Held for Ransom]

Yup, I've seen a C030 (or C080) dated 1970 #12 head.

[poncho-mike]

I have a 1970 T/A YZ engine with C080 dated heads. The block is dated within a few days of the heads and intake. I believe the car was built in early July.

[unruhjonny]

this is so weird.

my car is a first week of June car, and the 100% correct replacement engine I found for it was installed in another Formula Firebird 564 units infront of it (pending a reply from HFR, I'm guessing that puts this engine as being in a car built on the same day as my car, or maybe a day before my car);
Block: April 30th
Heads: April 22nd & April 29th

Granted I am not the most versed in date code logic, but it seems to me that there must have been something funny going on for a car built a whole month later than me to have an engine cast about a month before mine.
I'm not calling bs, I'm only meaning to say that at face value it seems weird.

The YZ engine I had before was a January casting block & intake with October heads... based on the partial vin that car was built 19,255 units before mine (#3636, vs my #22,891).

I wonder how far off projected RAIII engine sales must have been off for the engines to languish that long...

[shakerz]

Very interesting data, gentlemen. Please indulge me a couple of ignorant questions. Mike posted one of his cars was a July build car which would make the assembly date 4 months later then his drivetrain castings. I know the build sheet has the build date on it. Is the date on the cowl tag (Fisher body tag) also the build date of the car and is that cowl tag date always later then all casting dates?

[shakerz]

Originally Posted by FASTASSBIRD

He’s asking 700 bucks. They look VERY nice


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I’ll call ya I’m in Texas so I wish he would reconsider shipping or maybe he could meet me at Nats.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by shakerz

...Please indulge me a couple of ignorant questions. ...I know the build sheet has the build date on it. Is the date on the cowl tag (Fisher body tag) also the build date of the car and is that cowl tag date always later then all casting dates?

I believe that the build sheet or options sheet that can sometimes be found on a car is created before the car goes into production;
the only real date discrepancy you might come across is the date of the invoice or sale on a PHS sheet - versus the build date on the cowl tag - but that can be explained HERE.

Typically what I have come to understand as being an acceptable/correct range for spread between build date and casting dates is three to eight weeks.

I only realized after locating and acquiring my replacement engine, just how close it came to my car - before getting it, I was only looking at the date codes...

[shakerz]

This is a photo of the buildsheet my polar 70 was sold to me with. Supposedly a rare Norwood buildsheet. I’m not certain of its validity. The car is highly documented but there is nothing on this document that ties it to my car. It looks similar to first gen buildsheet I’ve seen. I have decided to consider it a possibly forged document until I can get more information on it.

[poncho-mike]

I should probably correct my statement on my car. The heads were C080, the block was close, and the cowl tag on the car was dated 07A. I never ran PHS. This was a 70K original mile car, purchased from the original owner around 1988 with 70K miles on it. It came from WV, and was rusty.

This same car had 5 25 JW wheels, and I think the rear end was early April. I sold the alternator, which was dated mid-March 1970. I don't have the carb where I can get my hands on it easily, but I think the dates aligned with the motor.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by shakerz

This is a photo of the buildsheet my polar 70 was sold to me with. Supposedly a rare Norwood buildsheet. I’m not certain of its validity. The car is highly documented but there is nothing on this document that ties it to my car. It looks similar to first gen buildsheet I’ve seen. I have decided to consider it a possibly forged document until I can get more information on it.

i haven't seen colour sheets like that before, but my guess is that what you have is some sort of built sheet of some kind for a 1970 RAIII/mt Trans Am;
Is the serial number very close to your vin, or body number?
The model appears to read 22887 which is Trans Am;
I see a WS (most box headers are unreadable) - which is the engine code for a manual transmission L74/RAIII.

That's a neat piece of paper...

I believe that in Rocky's book it's explained why build sheets are often found on gas tanks, as well as why some cars have them in other places while some have none... and then other cars have build sheets for different cars...

[Held for Ransom]

228870N109877 or 377. 07 019 (Don Ayres Pontiac, Wayne, IN)
Polar White. 4 speed on the floor.
WS (L74, RAIII) WC (7040273)
WB (4 speed, wide ratio?)
JW rims with red centers
Built 03 12?
Very depixelated picture.

[unruhjonny]

/\ HFR - you're the man!
lol

[FASTASSBIRD]

Originally Posted by shakerz

I’ll call ya I’m in Texas so I wish he would reconsider shipping or maybe he could meet me at Nats.

PM me, I’ll give you a number of a guy who might be able to pick em up for you.


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[poncho-mike]

I have taken apart a bunch of early birds, and I always looked for the build sheet. I looked on top of the gas tank, under the front or rear seats, behind door panels, etc. I remember finding only one build sheet out of all the early cars I've owned and dismantled. I think all were Norwood built cars except for one Van Nuys built car. Incidentally, it might have been the one with the build sheet. I think I found it on top of the gas tank, and it was in very bad shape.

[shakerz]

Interesting and informative data and stories on these old cars. Appreciate all. Yes the serial number turned out to be a match to the last 6 sequential production number part of my vin. I totally spaced that but pinionhead helped me out earlier. He also derived the pulley codes as correct 2 groove for non ac car. Thanx again, you guys are great.