[unruhjonny]

I am wondering if owners of 1973 Firebirds, which have PHS packets could share the spread between build date and ship date with me.

The only example I have handy is the '73 Formula I used to own;
Ship date (from PHS): January 9th
Build date (from cowl tag): 01A (first week of January)

Thanks in advance!!

[unruhjonny]

nevermind, I think we've got this figured out;
It looks like the car I am looking into has a week differentiating the build date and the ship date - which is the same as the '73 Formula I used to won.

[Held for Ransom]

The example you posted may have only a couple days difference (started on a Friday and shipped on a Tuesday). Do you have the six digit number you can post?

[unruhjonny]

Thanks to another member here, I believe I know what you're talking about;
for the Formula I believe you're meaning line five, the first three digits of the six digit number on the cowl tag;
480 = 48th build date;
According to Rocky's book the first date of 1973 model year builds was October 23rd;
With only taking off December 25th, that puts the year end at day #49 - so there must be a day or two that I am off...
either way, it was built right at the very beginning of the year.

[Bentwheelbob]

My 1973 TA is an 04A body build and 04-09-1973 ship date.

[Held for Ransom]

Day 48 could be Jan. 5 (Friday). Still trying to verify.
I can't believe they didn't get off one or two days for Thanksgiving.
One day for Christmas.
One day for the New Year.
Hard to believe they started production on Veteran's day, '72.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Day 48 could be Jan. 5 (Friday). Still trying to verify.
I can't believe they didn't get off one or two days for Thanksgiving.
One day for Christmas.
One day for the New Year.
Hard to believe they started production on Veteran's day, '72.

We get Thanksgiving and the day after as official holidays.

We normally get the time off between Christmas and New Years. Skilled trades might be working to do maintenance or process revisions, but you wouldn't normally run production unless you were trying to make up for previous downtime or building a really hot product.

November 11th would be a really late start of production in general but I'm no expert on F car model changes of any era.

I also believe you need to add some fuzz around the ship date and build date information. In some cases it is a projection of what you intend to happen and you can be off a day or so due to unforeseen circumstance. In other cases even when it is attempting to document an event it can be off.

I followed my pickup truck down the line and drove it to the shipping building myself. Thirty years later when I ordered the build documents through the GM Heritage Center I noticed the shipping date was off by a day. The only way a person would know that is if they were standing right there.

Bottom line is they just can't shoot that straight.

K

[unruhjonny]

thanks for the first hand account Keith!

[Held for Ransom]

Keith, Veteran's Day changed in '71 or '72 to the 4th Monday in October. It was changed back to Nov. 11th in '77 or '78 (I suppose I could Goggle it, but it really doesn't matter).
The whole week+1 for Christmas/New Years fits for 1st Day 48=Jan. 5th.
Jonny, was the last 3 digits a high number, over say 650?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Keith, Veteran's Day changed in '71 or '72 to the 4th Monday in October. It was changed back to Nov. 11th in '77 or '78 (I suppose I could Goggle it, but it really doesn't matter).
The whole week+1 for Christmas/New Years fits for 1st Day 48=Jan. 5th.
Jonny, was the last 3 digits a high number, over say 650?

Thank you -

I didn't realize it had ever changed from "the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month".

K

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

The whole week+1 for Christmas/New Years fits for 1st Day 48=Jan. 5th.
Jonny, was the last 3 digits a high number, over say 650?

(whoops, I posted the wrong car's information)
it is 261;
480261

I too had no idea that Vetrans day changed...

[Held for Ransom]

I checked the "Echoes of Norwood" book and the start date says 10-19-72. Being off a couple days is still no big deal as the strike caused a lot of headaches/heartaches. The end of the model year must have been off by a week or more.

261 should have been early in the day, they were pushing for over 800/day.

Veteran's Day moving was quite a big deal back in the day. A lot of people at the time still celebrated on 11-11 instead of the new dates.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

I checked the "Echoes of Norwood" book and the start date says 10-19-72. Being off a couple days is still no big deal as the strike caused a lot of headaches/heartaches. The end of the model year must have been off by a week or more.

261 should have been early in the day, they were pushing for over 800/day.

Veteran's Day moving was quite a big deal back in the day. A lot of people at the time still celebrated on 11-11 instead of the new dates.

Wait - What!?

Until very recently I understood that six digit number was unknown;
now I am understanding that the first three digits signify the accumulative assembly day for that model year, and the next three signify the sequential number that the car is from that build day!?
neat!!
I took my start date (Oct 23) from Rocky's new book...

[Held for Ransom]

I believe, the first 2 digits are the production day (01-99, then 01-99 and if necessary, 01-xx). The next 4 digits are where the vehicle started (was placed in line) on that day.

If there was a quality problem, it was easier to find out the where/when in line.

[unruhjonny]

cool!!
I will make note of this in my files!

[John V.]

Adding another couple data points if there is any interest in this:

1. Date Shipped on the PHS 11-02-72 (Thursday)
Time Built code on Data Plate 10C
Schedule Date on Data Plate 703214 (this one is odd because I thought the 3rd digit would always be a "0".

2. Date Shipped on the PHS 01-30-73 (Tuesday)
Time Built code on Data Plate 01D
Schedule Date on Data Plate 620419

3. Date Shipped on the PHS 04-06-73 (Friday)
Time Built code on Data Plate 03E
Schedule Date on Data Plate 130829

The Schedule Date coding on the Data Plate can be found on the '73 Build Sheet. I have only two such examples to review.

The code is typed in the format of XX-XXXX such that for the 3rd listing above it would have been typed to read 13-0829 while it was embossed without the dash (and without any space) on the Data Plate as 130829.

Below the code on the Build Sheet is the corresponding calendar date.

From the Build Sheet examples;

Schedule Date code 68 corresponds to 02-05 (Monday, Feb 5th)
Schedule Date code 61 corresponds to 06-11 (Monday, June 11th)

I don't have Data Plate or PHS records to go along with either of the Build Sheet records so I do not know whether the date on the Build Sheet matches to the Date Shipped on the PHS or would precede it.

If I use the 2nd listing above and consider Day 62 as Jan 30th, then Day 68 would be Feb 5th if I count Sat. and Sun.

If I skip Sat. and Sun. and make day 62 Friday Jan 26th, then Day 68 is Monday Feb 5th.

If I continue to skip Sat. and Sun., I make Day 99 Tuesday Mar 20.

Then I make Wednesday Mar 21 as Day 01 and continue, still skipping Sat. and Sun.

I then make Day 13 as Friday April 6th. For the 3rd listing above, the Date Shipped is April 6th while the Schedule Date code is 13. Believing the Schedule Date code was a day or 2 in advance of the Date Shipped, I'm guessing that a couple Saturdays were actually production days.

Continuing from there, I make it to June 11 as Day 59 whereas the Build Sheet makes it Day 61.

I suspect that Memorial Day was a holiday, so I suspect there may have been 3 or 4 Saturdays as Production Days between April 6th and June 11th.

It would take some more Build Sheets and additional Data Plate codes and PHS records showing the Date Shipped to refine the "match" between the Schedule Date coding and the Calendar.

But I suspect the above is pretty close.

If Day 62 is Jan 26th, counting backwards and skipping Sat and Sun, I make Day 48 as Monday Jan 8th.

The 1st listing Schedule Date coding is an anomaly. Don't know if the coding changed from early year or if the guy embossing that particular Data Plate simply screwed it up.

More early records might decide one way or the other. Based on what you guys are saying about the start of '73 production, a 10C build figures to be very early, so perhaps the coding style had not yet been established and the 703214 would be interpreted differently?

[Pepi]

John,
Here is information for my Formula:

Cowl Tag 04C
Six digit number on Cowl Tag 300257
Ship date from PHS 5-1-73
Date of Note 5-11-73
Date of Execution 5-1-73

So what does Date of Note and Date of Execution mean?

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Pepi

John,
Here is information for my Formula:

Cowl Tag 04C
Six digit number on Cowl Tag 300257
Ship date from PHS 5-1-73
Date of Note 5-11-73
Date of Execution 5-1-73

So what does Date of Note and Date of Execution mean?

The Date of 5-1 ( Execution) is the date at which that in 1 YEAR from that date, Interest will be charged the dealership. The "Draft date, or Date of Note" has to be within 30 days of shipment. Ship Date and arrival date are on the Bill of lading the Service tech "signs off" on when car comes off the carrier at the dealership.
When I set up cars that just came off the truck, I often put the CC ( carbon copy-yellow) in the Glove box of said cars .
NO Dealership wants to pay GM interest on the GM owned vehicles, so they have model year end sales and will often have a "price point" car on the lot with No options that sells Last and was only there for advertising a low price.

[unruhjonny]

neat!

[John V.]

Date of Note indicates the car was invoiced in Sales Class A, meaning the dealer had access to GMAC wholesale credit which offered very attractive terms.

If the purchasing dealer did NOT have a line of credit from GMAC, then the sale would have been Sales Class B normally. In this case the dealer would need to finance thru an alternate source, usually his banker. In that case, instead of showing Date of Note on the Invoice, it will show Date of Draft.

Either way, PMD was essentially paid immediately upon shipment.

Bruce, that one year no interest thing doesn't match to what I'm familiar with. Usually with this type of financing (GMAC wholesale credit), the dealer had an incentive to pay off the note very quickly.

To my knowledge, the Date of Execution is the same day as the car is shipped, assuming it is a dealer order (rather than a Zone Stock build, though I don't know if PMD was building unsold Zone Stock units in '73). The financing Note is executed on the date shipped.

The Date of Note or Date of Draft will recognize a "grace period" accounting for the transit time between when the car ships and when it arrives at the dealership (during transit, the car was not available for sale by the dealer, hence the grace period).

There is usually a "cash discount" available during this period, an incentive to pay it off quickly.

Each Sales Class A Invoice will show the date when the Interest clock would start to tick. In '73, I believe this was 20 days after the Date of Note.

Pepi, didn't list it, but I believe his Invoice record will show that the retailing dealer owed interest from May 31, 1973 or so, 20 days after the 5/11/73 Date of Note and 30 days after the Note was executed and the car was shipped.

If the Invoice was Sales Class B, GMAC wasn't involved so the interest terms were set between the dealer and his bank, this won't show up on the Invoice.

The Sales Class is the 3rd character in the Invoice Identification No.