[elcaminobill]

The October issue of High Performance Pontiac has a multi page article on a 79 Grand Am. Its nice to see Pontiac G Bodies getting some press. Check it out.

[Pontiacdaver]

Yeah, that is a nice G/A. Personally, I'd have gone with a Buckskin interior on the Black/Gold exterior though. I "discovered" that car on a site 5-6 years ago when I had my 79 4spd G/A.
I guess I can't talk about the colors though, mine was Med. Carmine Metallic with Silver lower paint and and a Buckskin cloth interior. Bought it from the original owner, ended up selling it because the mechanical clutch irritated my lower back and left leg. It sure was a neat car, and I am also glad to see one in HPP.

Daver

[elcaminobill]

STEELERS fan since '68

Me too since '69.

Your GA sounds pretty nice. The 4spds are probably ultra rare.

[iowapub]

pontiacdaver, where did you dissapear to?
The 4 speed is a nice survivor for sure. Dont know if the V6 with a stick was standard in a Grand Am though (Chris G what do you think).There were a few mistakes in the article, but good to see a Grand Am G body make it to print in High Performance Pontiac!
Nice to see it is staying in the family too.

[Rocky Rotella]

iowapub, what mistakes did the article contain?

[Pontiacdaver]

Hi kent,

I'm still around, been busy planning (and paying for) my Daughter's upcoming wedding. Went to the Tri Power Nationals for the first time, and I will be there from now on. What a great show.

The 231/MT was standard in the Grand Am, Tracy Sansom's G/A was one of them. WAS being the key word.

elcaminobill, good to hear from another of the Steeler's faithful. Got one for the thumb, now we need to start filling up the other hand.

Dave

[iowapub]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

iowapub, what mistakes did the article contain?

Well, if Tracys car did come with a V6, then thats one corrected. I've never seen or heard of a V6 or a 3 speed manual offered in the 78-80 Grand Am.
Lemans and Grand Lemans are somewhat common with this combo, but have yet to see it in a Grand Am. That would explain the higher number of manual transmissions stated in the article. I thought there were like 233 made with the 4 speed. That would mean that there were ~ 195 made with the V6 and 3 speed.
What would the vin# say if it was a V6?

The brushed aluminum trim plate was offered in the Grand Prix too wasnt it? Not a Grand Am only option.

They got me on the speedo cluster too! Nice fit. How fast has this car gone? The Speedo cables breaks way before they hit zero with the 85mph gauge.

Alot of info in the article that I didnt know for sure, I need to re-read it..
Is this your car? If so, do you have a PHS on it?

[Rocky Rotella]

Originally Posted by iowapub

Well, if Tracys car did come with a V6, then thats one corrected. I've never seen or heard of a V6 or a 3 speed manual offered in the 78-80 Grand Am.
Lemans and Grand Lemans are somewhat common with this combo, but have yet to see it in a Grand Am. That would explain the higher number of manual transmissions stated in the article. I thought there were like 233 made with the 4 speed. That would mean that there were ~ 195 made with the V6 and 3 speed.

According to the article, the 301 2bbl was standard engine in the Grand Am in 1978, while a 301 4bbl was optional. The automatic was the only transmission available. In 1979, the 231ci V6 was standard, as was 3 speed manual trans. The automatic and four-speed manual trans were extra cost options behind the 231. An automatic transmission or four-speed manual were the only transmissions available with the 301 4bbl. The article didn’t get into 1980 since the feature car was a ’79.

I don’t know where the “233” number came from, but that number has never been verified in any Pontiac-printed source. We do, however, know that 428 FOUR SPEED transmissions were installed behind 231 AND 301 powered A-bodies (LeMans, Grand LeMans, and Grand Am) through June of the ’79 model year. So the “500” estimate mentioned is probably pretty accurate. There’s no known breakout as to how many of the 428 through June were installed behind either engine, and there’s known breakout that’s Grand Am specific.

I’m not sure how you’re calculating 195 V6 three-speeds. I certainly wouldn't say that approximately 500 out of 136,938 is exactly common either!

Originally Posted by iowapub

What would the vin# say if it was a V6?

The VIN of a 231 V6- powered 79 Grand Am would contain an “A” as the 5th digit.

Originally Posted by iowapub

The brushed aluminum trim plate was offered in the Grand Prix too wasnt it? Not a Grand Am only option.

The brushed aluminum trim plate was standard in the Grand Prix SJ, but the article was again speaking specifically about A-body production.

Originally Posted by iowapub

They got me on the speedo cluster too! Nice fit. How fast has this car gone? The Speedo cables breaks way before they hit zero with the 85mph gauge.

Not sure how fast the car is gone, but a speedometer can oftentimes be replaced, and a higher unit installed, without affecting accuracy. The internal gearing of the speedometer usually controls the input (speedo cable) to output (speedo needle) ratio, which corresponds with the graduated dial. The internal speedo gearing within the transmission controls cable speed, and is dependent on axle ratio gearing. This particular car still has its original rear axle gearing, so the speedo is likely still pretty accurate.

Originally Posted by iowapub

Alot of info in the article that I didnt know for sure, I need to re-read it..
Is this your car? If so, do you have a PHS on it?

Nope it’s not my car. According to the article, the owner’s name is Joe Fuccio, and the PHS invoice is shown on page 35.

Also, a tachometer wasn’t standard with a four speed, and this car clearly has one (interior shot page 33, and U21 option on PHS). The quartz clock the article mentioned was owner-added, and hangs below the steering column.

[Tin Injun Tom]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

According to the article, the 301 2bbl was standard engine in the Grand Am in 1978, while a 301 4bbl was optional. The automatic was the only transmission available. In 1979, the 231ci V6 was standard, as was 3 speed manual trans. The automatic and four-speed manual trans were extra cost options behind the 231. An automatic transmission or four-speed manual were the only transmissions available with the 301 4bbl.

Nope it’s not my car. According to the article, the owner’s name is Joe Fuccio, and the PHS invoice is shown on page 35.

These factoids concerning manual transmission availabiltity are DEAD ON to what I've always believed. I didn't know about the 231 or 3-speed in a Grand Am until about three years ago, but I always knew all '78s were automatics.
That name, Joe Fuccio sounds very familiar too. I think I may have seen it in the Grand Am registry website member list.

Also, thanks Rocky, for correctly refering to the Grand Am as an A body.

I'm going to have to check out that HPP article. I let my subscription run out last year, after 13 years. They had a feature article on a black/gold '79 in Feb(?) '96. That car had a tan cloth interior, and snowflake wheels.
Thomas

[Rocky Rotella]

Tom, if you're interested in purchasing that issue (Oct 2007), you might want to find it fairly quickly. The new issue is already hitting subscribers, so it's a matter of days before it hits newsstands. It's got a dark blue '68 Firebird on the cover.

For the record, Joe's Grand Am has 16,000 miles, and he's the original owner. The Starlight Black exterior is 100% original. Here are a few of the "extra" pics from the photoshoot.

[Don57]

According to the 1978 Pontiac sales brochure (page 39) the standard transmission in the LeMans/Grand LeMans was the manual 3-speed floor shift and the Grand Am was automatic. However, the avaliable transmission was the manual 4-speed floor shift (Grand Am only). But then again, we all know that what was listed as "available" and what hit the streets were not always the same in many makes and models. Love that car! Too bad the 400/4-speed wasn't available.

[Rocky Rotella]

Don, that's interesting. I'll have to dig out my '78 brochure and check that out. According to the 1978 Pontiac 49-state Powertrain Chart in the Dealer Album, the four-speed was only available with the 231, which, in itself, was limited to the LeMans and Grand LeMans.

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by iowapub

I thought there were like 233 made with the 4 speed.

Kent,

The 233 number is how many 4spd 79 Grand Prixes were made (the 4spd was also available for the first time since 1971 in the GP, and only in 1979) I've never known, up till now, the number on the Grand Am, but always suspected it to be higher. I've seen, or known of, at least 15 4spd G/As, and only 5 or 6 GPs. I've always believed Grand Am buyers were more likely to opt for the manual trans over the typical Grand Prix buyer.
I have, somewhere around here, a folder from 1979 comparing the Grand Prix and the Grand Am, that is where I found out the 231 with M/T (floor mounted) was the standard eng./trans.

Everything else stated by Rocky is correct by what I have learned.

As for 1978, I've never seen anything about the 301/4spd, at least in the U.S. However, they may have offered it in Canada

Don and Thomas, it's good the see you over on this site, I don't get to the G/A site much anymore.

Dave

[srercrcr]

The large sales brochure states the 4 spd is only available in the Grand Am (which we know is false).
The small brochure makes no mention, except to say the GA comes with an automatic.
The Pontiac Product line book says the 4 spd is avail in the LM but NOT THE GRAND AM.
The Powertrain chart in the rear has no 4 spd mated to anything in the Grand Am.

I'm gonna take the position (FWIW) the large brochure is a misprint.

Nice to see such participation.

[iowapub]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

I
I’m not sure how you’re calculating 195 V6 three-speeds. I certainly wouldn't say that approximately 500 out of 136,938 is exactly common either!

The VIN of a 231 V6- powered 79 Grand Am would contain an “A” as the 5th digit.

The brushed aluminum trim plate was standard in the Grand Prix SJ, but the article was again speaking specifically about A-body production.

Nope it’s not my car. According to the article, the owner’s name is Joe Fuccio, and the PHS invoice is shown on page 35.

Also, a tachometer wasn’t standard with a four speed, and this car clearly has one (interior shot page 33, and U21 option on PHS). The quartz clock the article mentioned was owner-added, and hangs below the steering column.

Rocky, I was saying that I thought the Lemans and Grand Lemans 3 and 4 speed manual cars are more common than the Grand Am 4 speed and certainly more common than the Grand Am V6 with a manual transission. I only know of ~10 Grand Ams with the 4 speed.

So the vin would read 2G27A9Pxxxxxx? Or is there a 2 barrel/4 barrel designation in there somewhere?

I saw the copy of the window sticker, but I "thought" that PHS documantation offered more info. I got the 233 number from someone in Canada that has a 4 speed w/o air. He stated that 233 were made and only 23 where w/o air.

They mentioned that the speedo came from an earliy '70's A or G body, in the same paragraph as the brushed aluminum trim plate. Thats why I mentioned that.

Now I know they call this an A-Body, but what makes it an A body rather than a G body other than calling it an A-body? And what '70's car were they refering to as a G Body as mentioned above?

I do love that car! And thanks for posting more pictures!

Is'nt there a Pontiac show comming up in Omaha soon?

[Tin Injun Tom]

Originally Posted by iowapub

So the vin would read 2G27A9Pxxxxxx? Or is there a 2 barrel/4 barrel designation in there somewhere?

Now I know they call this an A-Body, but what makes it an A body rather than a G body other than calling it an A-body? And what '70's car were they refering to as a G Body as mentioned above?

Engine code A simply refers to the garden variety 231 2bbl engine. If there were a 4 bbl 231, which only came on a turbo charged 231, the fifth digit would be something other than "A".

As for the A-body vs G-body, This is how it works:
1978-1981 Century, Malibu, Cutlass Salon (fastback), Lemans, Grand Am, = A-Body

1978-1987 Regal, Monte Carlo, Cutlass (notchback), Grand Prix, = G-Body

In 1982, GM started calling everything that utilized 78-87 mid-size chassis a G-body, only because they re-assigned the A-body designation to the brand new Celebrity/6000 series, which also included the FWD Century, and Cutlass Ciera.
That's howcum the '83 & newer 4-door Malibus, and Lemans bodied Bonnevilles are designated G-bodies.

The above mentioned G-bodies (78-81) were given seperate designation as a continuation of the 69-77 GP and Monte Carlo, "personal luxury car" theme.
It didn't matter that the 78-up Malibu, Lemans, Grand Am, etc, now used the identicle chassis as G-bodies. Hence, they retained their A-body status, as before 1978.

Thomas