[Nomadac]

I went to H.S. back in the mid 50's graduating in 1957, so grew up with all of the cars in the 50's especially the Chevy's back then. Then along came the 57 Pontiac that was a real runner and gave a lot of the 57 Chevy's a run for the money.

My first new car was a 1961 Pontiac Ventura 2 Dr Hdtp. that started as a 2 bbl. 389 engine w/single exhaust. I installed dual exhaust and traded my 2 bbl. and manifold to a friend for his 64 4bbl. carb and manifold, he thought this would give him better mileage. From then on I was a fan of Pontiac. Living in Akron, OH. at the time and taking my car into Knafel Pontiac for service, I became very familiar with Knafel's Tin Indians and knew Arlen Vanke very well. Then to top my interest in Pontiac's I went to work for Pontiac Motor Div. in Oct. 1967 as a Service & Parts Rep. in the Akron area called District 2 in the Cleveland Zone. From then until June 30th, 1987 I worked for Pontiac in Field Service in various Zones and one stint assigned to the Central Office in Pontiac, MI.

I had the pleasure of driving every model that Pontiac built, averaging 10 Brass Hat cars every year for this entire period. I even drove one of John DeLorean's 1968 Firebirds that had a Ram Air II engine with an automatic while I was attending a training class in Pontiac. At the time I also had a Ram Air II Firebird as a Company car but mine was a close ratio 4 spd. w/performance axle. It seems the Security guard in the Corp. Garage saw me driving my firebird and asked if I would like to take DeLoreans car for a drive. I am sure if John had found out this guard would have found a new assignment for letting me take it for a ride, LOL.

I had may experiences and great times during that time and was always a real fan of Pontiacs, during the time that they Really built Excitement. Many things change with the promotion of Delorean to Chevy and later to the GM Corporate. Pontiac never had a GM or Mangement that really understood what made Pontiac great. Jim Wanger's wrote an article about the downfall of Pontiac, last year in one of the Pontiac magazines and hit the nail on the head as to the decesending fall of Pontiac. To think that Pontiac went from #3 in Sales for 9 years back then to being discontinued is beyond belief.

I left Pontiac in July 1987, after 20 years, when PMD was reducing salary headcount in an effort to reduce expenses. I went to work for TMS (Toyota Motor Sales) U.S. Distributor for Toyota Products. Spent 14 years with Toyota and what a difference in philosophy for a manufacturer from GM. The only Pontiac I purchased after leaving Pontiac was my current 1963 Pontiac Grand Prix that is a CA. car. Aside from the 2001 Chevy Suburban I own this is the only GM vehicle I own or will ever own. What a difference from the past.

RIP Pontiac

[citydesk175]

I was at PMD engineering (895 Joslyn through part of your career there. )
I agree that PMD never had a chance, If there was ever a great Pontiac GM or Chief Engineer, he was cherry picked to Chevrolet while the merely good ones were left to wither in Pontiac. (Names will not be named here)

I was offended for along time about the image or images that Pontiac and its products were held in the mind's eye of the public. I dont at my advanced age of 62 remember anyone standing up and defending Pontiac.

But last year I admired a very nice Fiero in the parking lot just as a pair of Beevis and Butt-head clones exited a building and walked towards me and the Fiero. I shall translate their comments in the extreme Conservative direction in Proportion to the Leftist Know Nothing direction of their actual comments.

"Observe! That poor fellow is stuck with a Fiero!!!!!!!!!!!"
"I agree! He is an ignorant fellow whose parents probably shared a bed momentarily. Pity!!"

Good luck and KTF
Citydesk175

BTW I retired from GM last December (08)

[Rocky 389]

When I was a kid my dad bought a string of straight 8 pontiacs...in '60 we blew the engine in our white 52 and bought a yellow 55 catalina hardtop coupe. Loved it.
My dad went over to Oldsmobile but my heart stayed with Pontiac.
In high school ['62 to '66] my buddy, Jim was getting tired of getting beat by all the 55-57 chevys. He was a flathead merc holdout and had a merc engine in his 50 ford tudor. WE talked in study hall and I convinced him to buy a 56 Pontiac cheiftain hardtop with the slant-pan hydro.
He replaced the 2 barrel and single exhaust with a 4 barrel and dual pipes and atlas bucron tires....we went hunting for chevys and did very well against the 265-283, 4 speed cars. Anything with a 327 gave us trouble tho.
When I came home on leave from the army I traded the 55 Olds I'd bought from my parents with a little cash for an old man's 57 Pontiac chieftain 2 door sedan. It was a factory 3 speed stick car with the low compression 347, 2 barrel. I beat on it until it began losing compression and bought a co-worker's wrecked 59 Pontiac for it's 389, [303 hp] 4 barrel engine. Bought a muncie 4 speed for it and I had an instant hotrod.
I'd race 64 GTO's and beat 'em...really made those guys mad.
Now, I've had 11, 55-57 Pontiacs....most of which I've swapped 389's into.
Also had a 68 GTO and a big fat red 70 Bonneville with a 455. One of my 57 tudors had a 67 GTO 40, 4 speed in it.
My latest project is a 34 ford coupe. The engine is a 57 Pontiac bored out [.125] to 370 cu, in. with a 5 speed from a late camaro...make mine Pontiac please.

[poison heart]

Any pics of the '59?

[70&71 TRANSAM OWNER]

Hi City Desk
I do not think you have ever met him ,GM is a big place but my next door neighbor was good freinds From his Collage for design days ,this was in the 1940s with the designer of the Pontiac tail lights from the 40s up into the 80s.
The man took home a set of every tail light he ever worked on. The man had a good size room with lens going around the room I have no idea how many times,It did make one nice pic.The man has passed away I would love to have the coll. for no other reason other than to see them taking care of and seen by others, rom what I wastold his son has took them on and is doing just that. I would hate to see the wife toss them in a dumpster,I wish I could remember his name Ill need to bring him back up with the neighbor again and try not to forget that name again.

[Old Man Taylor]

I just ran across this thread. It's been a lot of fun to read through it. I have no one to blame but myself for getting involved with Pontiacs. My Dad was not the least bit interested in cars. His passion was motorcycles. My main interest in cars was always acceleration, from the youngest age I can remember. I was about 8 when I remember my Dad pulling away from a stoplight in his '46 Ford and I would be encouraging him to stay in front of the car alongside. My first exposure to a Pontiac was in high school when a friend's parents had a new '57 Pontiac. That really seemed like a hot car. Back in the day my friends and I made it a point to go to the car dealers as soon as the new cars came out so we could check them out as soon as they uncovered them. Our focus at that time was primarily on Fords and Chevys. I continued this tradition through my college days. The first Pontiac that I was really interested in was the new 1961 Bonneville convertible that I checked out at Wilkens Pontiac in Van Nuys. It was baby blue with the matching tri-color interior. Fast forward a few more years when I was starting my last semester of Engineering school (September, 1963). I started checking out all of the new cars, and the high performance used cars so I could start planning on a purchase. I didn't really find exactly what I wanted. In October my future wife and I were at the San Fernando Dragstrip. As we were leaving I saw a silver car in the parking lot that I thought looked really nice. I looked all over it to found out who the manufacturer was, but all I could find was GTO. As an aside, I was turning 23 that month. Soon the first magazine articles about the Pontiac GTO starting hitting the stands. Now I knew where to go to check out the car. On the next Friday night my fiancé (Sandy) and I went to Wilkens Pontiac to check them out. We were allowed to take a test drive in a 4-speed 4-barrel car (no tri-powers for demos). I finally found a car that I REALLY wanted. I spent the next few months going over all of the options (and their costs) trying to figure how much I could afford and how to finance it. By my graduation at the end of January I got serious about making a deal. I went back to Wilkens Pontiac and negotiated one of those "too good to be true deals". At least that's what the salesman said after speaking with the Sales Manager. I was now back to square one. During my early college days I had become a member of Fedco, one of the first membership shopping places. It turned out that they referred people to particular car dealers for good pricing. I hustled down to A. E. England Pontiac in Hollywood with my complete list of needs and wants. I made a no hassle deal for a tri-power 4-speed posi car with all of the heavy duty options and no power options. It was a stretch to afford that. I put down a $100 deposit to order the car the last week of January. That gave me eight weeks to save up the rest of the down payment, and hopefully get the car delivered before my 4-4-64 wedding. My soon to be father-in-law finally stepped up as I was searching for financing. He had recently become the VP of a small bank. I got a 4.5% simple interest loan for three years that netted me a payment of $94.89 each month after my total of $400 down. The interesting thing is that the final price I got from A. E. England was better than the deal that was turned down at Wilkens Pontiac. The cost of the car was $3236, $3416 out the door. As I recall the list was $36xx. The next eight weeks were a terrible wait, in more ways than one. There's no question that I was excited about getting married, but I was always talking with Sandy excitedly about the car. She finally said "You want that xxxx car more than you want me!" It took a lot of years for her to finally realize that was not really true. I still have the car, slowly moving it from a 14 second family car to a 10-second streetcar. I kept the wife as long as I could, but she passed away 1-6-04. Later in life, as she appreciated more that she really was the first priority, she helped me come up with the money to buy a '64 Tempest that later became the racecar. I think I chose my cars and woman very well.

[poison heart]

$3400 for a tri power 4 speed posi...must be nice

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by Old Man Taylor

I just ran across this thread. It's been a lot of fun to read through it. I have no one to blame but myself for getting involved with Pontiacs. My Dad was not the least bit interested in cars. His passion was motorcycles. My main interest in cars was always acceleration, from the youngest age I can remember. I was about 8 when I remember my Dad pulling away from a stoplight in his '46 Ford and I would be encouraging him to stay in front of the car alongside. My first exposure to a Pontiac was in high school when a friend's parents had a new '57 Pontiac. That really seemed like a hot car. Back in the day my friends and I made it a point to go to the car dealers as soon as the new cars came out so we could check them out as soon as they uncovered them. Our focus at that time was primarily on Fords and Chevys. I continued this tradition through my college days. The first Pontiac that I was really interested in was the new 1961 Bonneville convertible that I checked out at Wilkens Pontiac in Van Nuys. It was baby blue with the matching tri-color interior. Fast forward a few more years when I was starting my last semester of Engineering school (September, 1963). I started checking out all of the new cars, and the high performance used cars so I could start planning on a purchase. I didn't really find exactly what I wanted. In October my future wife and I were at the San Fernando Dragstrip. As we were leaving I saw a silver car in the parking lot that I thought looked really nice. I looked all over it to found out who the manufacturer was, but all I could find was GTO. As an aside, I was turning 23 that month. Soon the first magazine articles about the Pontiac GTO starting hitting the stands. Now I knew where to go to check out the car. On the next Friday night my fiancé (Sandy) and I went to Wilkens Pontiac to check them out. We were allowed to take a test drive in a 4-speed 4-barrel car (no tri-powers for demos). I finally found a car that I REALLY wanted. I spent the next few months going over all of the options (and their costs) trying to figure how much I could afford and how to finance it. By my graduation at the end of January I got serious about making a deal. I went back to Wilkens Pontiac and negotiated one of those "too good to be true deals". At least that's what the salesman said after speaking with the Sales Manager. I was now back to square one. During my early college days I had become a member of Fedco, one of the first membership shopping places. It turned out that they referred people to particular car dealers for good pricing. I hustled down to A. E. England Pontiac in Hollywood with my complete list of needs and wants. I made a no hassle deal for a tri-power 4-speed posi car with all of the heavy duty options and no power options. It was a stretch to afford that. I put down a $100 deposit to order the car the last week of January. That gave me eight weeks to save up the rest of the down payment, and hopefully get the car delivered before my 4-4-64 wedding. My soon to be father-in-law finally stepped up as I was searching for financing. He had recently become the VP of a small bank. I got a 4.5% simple interest loan for three years that netted me a payment of $94.89 each month after my total of $400 down. The interesting thing is that the final price I got from A. E. England was better than the deal that was turned down at Wilkens Pontiac. The cost of the car was $3236, $3416 out the door. As I recall the list was $36xx. The next eight weeks were a terrible wait, in more ways than one. There's no question that I was excited about getting married, but I was always talking with Sandy excitedly about the car. She finally said "You want that xxxx car more than you want me!" It took a lot of years for her to finally realize that was not really true. I still have the car, slowly moving it from a 14 second family car to a 10-second streetcar. I kept the wife as long as I could, but she passed away 1-6-04. Later in life, as she appreciated more that she really was the first priority, she helped me come up with the money to buy a '64 Tempest that later became the racecar. I think I chose my cars and woman very well.

Very nice story!!!

[Old Man Taylor]

Originally Posted by poison heart

$3400 for a tri power 4 speed posi...must be nice

Remember that I was just getting out of school, getting married, and my new job only paid $610 per month (which seemed like a lot to me at the time). It was a real stretch to pay that $94.89/month, which is also why I remember the numbers so well.

[Rocky 389]

Originally Posted by poison heart

Any pics of the '59?

Nah..it was an uninteresting, beat up, rusty light green catalina two door sedan...303 HP with a 3 speed stick..column shift. The guy wrecked it in the front. I never took a photo of it.
However, I did click a photo of a 60 donor car [for my 56 catalina hardtop] that was a little more interesting. It was a 1960 Star chief two door sedan! Also had a 303 hp 389 but it had an automatic.
My buddy and I went in together on it..he wanted the bumpers for his 60 Ventura and I wanted the 389. We hauled the carcase over the scales. It had sat on the ground [flat tires] and the frame and floor were toast.

[poison heart]

That's awesome! Do you recall what yall paid for it?

[Rocky 389]

$75 for the '59 and $200 [split 2 ways] for the 60.

[poison heart]

That's awesome

[ramairthreegto]

I was conceived in the back of a 65 Tri-Power GTO.

[Sile]

Like allot of other I was your typical chevy guy a 71 firbird was given to me that I didn't really want it was in pretty bad shape and had a 350 with a 2 barrel, started going threw my barn found a Pontiac 400 in my head I thought same thing as a sbc 400 (at the time I thought Pontiac was the same thing) anyway long story short I started doing some research made some inquiry's about Pontiac engines got schooled a little and now I'm hooked.
I now have less respect for chevy but an enormous amount for Pontiac.
Still in the process of building the firbird btw :P so I am still fresh to the pontiac world.

[bluzurb]

I guess i'll start here. When i was 17 i bought my first vehicle. I vowed that i was never going to take it in for maintenance. I was going to do it all myself. I knew a little bit but really not a lot. Never worked on a car in my life. So, while i owned it, i changed oil and did brakes on it. Pretty easy. Then i joined the Navy. My wife and i owned one vehicle and it was a 01 civic. We got another vehicle. 1980 Toyota Celica GT Sunchaser. Beautiful car. When i was 21, I was pretty much done with the mild restoration. Not really a lot done to it. Just fixing her up. SO i was done with it. I wanted to get something else. Something with more power and something that will turn heads. That's when i found it. Was browsing through ebay and i saw my car. I was like, damn, that is a nice car. I want that. So i made it happen. Sold the toyota and i had the pontiac. Then i needed a daily drive. My wife had bought a new car and then we wanted to sell the civic. then that's when i got the 02 TA

[RandyW]

When I was 12, mom needed a new car, we went to the Ford dealer. My recently, at the time, deceased dad had worked at the Ford plant in Norfolk. She didn't like anything, they had her drive a new '65 LTD with a 289. Well, they didn't know mom, she said it felt like it was towing a bulldozer! So we go over to Roughton Pontiac. She looks at a bunch of stuff, they keep showing her 4 doors and Bonnevilles. Mom says don't you have anything a little sportier in a big car? Well, Harry Burdette, the sales manager said, "We just got in a car you might like." It was still in cleanup, this was about 8 pm buy then. We go through the back and turn a corner into cleanup. There before my eyes was the most beautiful piece of metal I've ever seen! Bright red 1965 2+2, 8 lugs, red stripe Tiger Paws and 421 on the fenders. I was about dancing at that point. As we found out later, it was 376 h.p. car with t-400. We took it for a drive with Harry in tow. We got about 2 blocks away and mom says, "I hope this thing has more power than that damn Ford." Ol' Harry ain't quite realizing exactly what we're riding in apparently, 'cause he tells her to give it the gas. We were at about 15-20 mph when she hammered it, it downshifted to first and fishtailed through second gear! Well Old Harry is white as a sheet and I'm grinning from ear to ear! Mom looks at Harry and says I'm not paying $4038 for this car, so Harry says, I'll get you a good price. At that point he might of offered to pay for it himself just to get back in one piece!
Well, needless to say, the deal was struck and I was hooked!

[poison heart]

Great story Randy. Do you have any pics?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

My story is kind of long, so I put it here:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524

I'm feeling sort of left out, so I'm going to post a super short version:

Basically, my dad raced for Royal Pontiac from 1963 through around 1969. The first Pontiac he purchased, from Dick Jesse at Royal, was our '63 Super Duty Catalina: Aluminum front end and bumpers, aluminum wheels and was the first of only three or so (that I'm aware of) to receive a Bobcat appearance package from the direction of Jim Wangers.

After our Catalina was taken back from us, we were given a '64 GTO to race. At the end of the season Royal asked if they could display our car at the Michigan State Fair; it seemed like a good idea at the time so we said "yes". Unfortunately they sold it directly from the Fairground and we never saw it, or all of the hot rodded accessories on it, again.

The good news is that it was replaced with a '65 GTO, which is the car we still have. An early September build, it was built specifically for dad to race, and already had the hood cut for ram air and the battery mounted in the trunk when we picked it up on Friday September 11th of 1964. He ran the car late in the 1964 calendar year and, other than the '66 season, right on up until 1974. As a result of it's "race car" only status it is currently in unrestored original condition with only 4800 miles and, although caught in the rain a couple times, it has never been in the snow.

We continued to receive cars from Pontiac up until 1968. I'm not sure what caused it but by then things started to wind down. We sold the '68 in 1973 and the '65 was our only 'collector car' until we started building the fleet back up in the mid 90's.

It recently occured to me that, at one point, we had so many GTOs around that we would refer to them by model year rather than by name (ie, "..are we going to take the '65? Or the '68?").



For the unabridged version, see the link in my quote above -

[RandyW]

Originally Posted by poison heart

Great story Randy. Do you have any pics?

If there are any pics, mom would have them in her stuff, I don't remember ever seeing any, though. I've wondered about that myself. I will look through her pictures again when she has them out.