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#21
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Quote:
But I was thinking this.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#22
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I think the guys paying big bucks for late 70s T/As have never driven a real Ram III, Ram IV, 455HO, or SD455 car. Once you've had the taste of raw torque, it's hard to settle for anything else. Having said that, some of the new stuff is awesome.
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#23
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Ya but how about the CB?
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#24
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I agree on the W72,WS6 TA's being great cars but stock for stock the 73 Y code 455 T/A is the better performer.The 78 WS6 TA gives up 30HP and 50LB's of torque to the 73 D port TA.Rear end ratio 3.23 for the 78WS6 and 3.42 for the 73TA.As for as handling goes both cars have the same diameter front sway bar.The 73TA has a larger .875 rear vs .750 sway bar.You could also get radial tires on the 73TA.Everybody has there opinion but by the numbers 73 gets the win.
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2001 Trans Am,WS6 Sunset Orange Metallic (sold) 1973 Trans Am 455,4speed 1970 GTO |
#25
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/\ thank you for chiming in.
I am absolutely biased, but I was quite skeptical at the W72 assertion...
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#26
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I bought a fairly low mileage 79 W72 WS6 T/A in the late 80s that I used several years as a daily driver. The intake/carb had been swapped out for a 1972 cast iron intake and matching carb, the stock exhaust manifolds had been replaced with ram air manifolds feeding into true duals with no catalytic converters. It was a pretty decent performer.
Around that same time, I also had a 73 Formula that was running a stock 1973 455 out of a big car. It was originally a Formula 400, so it was equipped with a TH400 and 3.08 limited slip. I didn't build this car, just bought it that way. Even with the modifications to the 79 T/A, the 73 Formula felt quicker and was more fun to drive stoplight to stoplight. The 79 was clearly the superior handling car. The only substitute for cubic inches is rectangular dollars. |
#27
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This is like arguing about whether brunettes, blondes or redheads are better, or if Italian, Mexican or Southern Fried food is better. I like to eat it all, it just depends on what you’re hungry for at the time....
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#28
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You have a way with words Mr. Bennett. Love it!
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P.O.S.I - It's not just a club...it's an addiction! |
#29
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I know threads can go into other areas of discussion. Just to say, I understand it's to each their own.
Regardless of year, rarity, options, or even price. These are not big project cars. Availability of product good, prices are good. Just not seeing these cars for sale getting bought? Anyone noticing this trend?
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Mike/Illinois |
#30
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Been coming Mike, everyone's hitting the wall at pretty much the same time, some just a little later than others.
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Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#31
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Now is a good time to buy, not sell. It really seems the only way to sell somewhat expensive cars are at an auction. We have sold several, and I don't get it. I think most of these cars are in the hands of dealers who use their ignorance to their advantage. As far as values, I am kind of at a loss anymore. Nothing makes sense in the old car hobby. Like someone posted, if people want something fast, you buy new, but hard to beat looks of an oldie.
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WWW.GLASGOPERFORMANCE.COM. Updated... Sort of! |
#32
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The market is not in balance. When that occurs it can either be demand driven, or supply driven. In this case it is both. Demand is waning for muscle cars that are not in the very top percentile of rarity and desireability. Also, those who came of age in the muscle car era are now in their late 50’s to mid-60’s and not only beginning to exit the market as purchasers, but thinning the herd and becoming sellers. If you want to see this firsthand go to the TA Nats which looks like a 1970’s hippie reunion.
On the supply side, more cars are being restored every day. Pertinent to this specific discussion witness the number of folks on here who revive a rusted out early 2nd gen TA each year and bring it to market. Anyone see the barn full of TA’s that Dave Hall has and is bringing to market? How about John Kraft. I respect these folks, but even if demand was flat it would be a soft market simply due to the increase in supply. Also, the availability of aftermarket parts and good sheetmetal has made reviving what 10 years ago would have been a parts car so much easier, and the internet has certainly contributed as well. Unless it’s a RA IV TA or very desireable SD these cars are toys, not investments. Enjoy them for what they are, but don’t expect prices to get better. |
#33
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I was waiting for Bob's first response, ha
My first post was a bit tongue in cheek. My 78's had 3.42 re one post said 3.23. FWIW. I believe 220 rating was low if anything. I do believe stock for stock, My original statement is true. The 78 W72 will run with a 73 non SD. 73 D port was garden variety generic. WS6 cars handle very well. Sorry on that, it is fact. Value? I don't see a 78 worth what a 73, let alone a 70-72 should be worth. I believe market is at the flat part of the curve, if not the top. I would not invest in this area. I have managed account that made more than muscle cars worth 3X of my value would have made in 2017. Buy them because you love them. Bad math potential in too many ways. My opinion has zero worth, Esprit owner here, but it is free.
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72 Bird |
#34
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Don't forget that the stock market has been on a tear like we haven't seen in decades. When the next big correction to the Dow occurs, some of that money will flow again back to other more tangible, enjoyable assets including classic cars.
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'72 Formula 455HO TH400, Revere Silver, black deluxe '74 Trans Am SD 4 speed, Admiralty Blue, blue deluxe |
#35
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Quote:
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2001 Trans Am,WS6 Sunset Orange Metallic (sold) 1973 Trans Am 455,4speed 1970 GTO |
#36
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Quote:
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#37
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Quote:
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2001 Trans Am,WS6 Sunset Orange Metallic (sold) 1973 Trans Am 455,4speed 1970 GTO |
#38
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Allegedly there is a 79 Hot Rod test where they got a 78 W72 4 speed to 14.6 in the 1/4. Anyone have a copy? They may have tweaked it (?). All the vintage road tests on 73 seem SD ones (?). Never said 78 was faster, I said in the same performance league.
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72 Bird |
#39
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Supply and demand, the 77-81 bandit has a bigger following and should surpass the 70-72 trans am in value. The market age segment for the fans of smokey and the bandit era is upon us.
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#40
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Lol
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