[Brian Baker]

That's right, only the last 6 digits will be on the firewall.

The last 6 digits are the "serial number" (or sequence number in production). No two Firebirds from any single year will have the same sequence number.

If the VIN on the dash has been changed like I suspect it has, and if it's a 1979 body, what are the odds that the number on the firewall matches the number on the dash?

Zero.

If the number on the firewall matches the number on the dash, and the car truly is a 1979 model year car, then he truly has a 10th anniversary model.

No match, no anniversary car. Given that the cowl tag is gone further reinforces my hunch.

[RT80BIRD]

I was thinking that you could decode the car by the firewall stampings themselves. Think about this; it may be far out there, but could happen... what are the chances that the car has a dash from a 10th t/a,but the firewall numbers dont match, so like you said, then its not a 10th.But say it IS actually a 10th ann., and has a dash from another 10th in it, but with the cowl tag gone,it would seem that it's just a regular T/A,with a dash from a donor anniversary car.But there are other ways you could tell,nobody's that good in covering up what a car was from the factory,unless it was completely stripped down.Kind of like how people try to make fake GTO's from six banger Le Mans's . I think if he finds the sheet on the fuel tank ,that will assure his findings of it being an SE car. I'll shut up now Bottom line here, check the numbers on a car before you buy it!!

...Hold up on the car wash,fellas! -Buford T. Justice

[s.a.steel]

Well, the fuel tank build sheet is awol, which figures. I am trying to remove the passenger wheel well to get at the a/c box, and it's giving me fits. Any clues on how to get this thing out? Does it come out through the engine bay or down and out the side of the car? Thanks for any info. However this all turns out, I still love the car. Just want to know what I've got here.

[Brian Baker]

Jack the car up and remove the passenger front rim/tire. Now remove all bolts holding wheelwell in. It will come out through the fender openng, but it can be tricky. It helps to have large screwdrivers or prybars on hand (and rags so you don't scratch the paint) to wedge between the wheelwell opening lip on the fender and the wheelwell itself.

[David]

A quick and easy way to see if the VIN has ever been removed from the car is by the rivet used on the metal part of the dash. You'll have to pull the dash if the VIN's doesn't match. This one smells real bad. Keep us posted.



David

[s.a.steel]

Well, I finally got the a/c box out of the way. The only numbers I found were right next to the blower motor hole. I could barely see them from the front, but with a mirror I could see the backside better. I think they are: 2AL103055. I'm not positive about the second 0, it could be an 8. None of these match the VIN on the dash. I don't see any numbers near the heater core hole, or anywhere else. I still don't see a VIN near the timing cover on the passenger side, either. Any other places to check for VIN's. What a mess! Still gonna restore the car, though. But it won't be original, that's for sure!

[Brian Baker]

2ALxxxxxx

Here's what I think you have:

2 = ? (possibly GM line number, which denotes it's a Pontiac)

A = model year, 1980

L = assembly plant, Van Nuys

The remaining numbers are the sequential production number.

Sorry, but it looks like you have a 1980 Firebird that has had the VIN changed.

[RT80BIRD]

Man thats somthin' else!Turns out you have an '80 bird,who knows what it was originally! Along with the dash being switched, the motor; possibly the trans, and rear end have also been messed with! I wonder what some sure fire ways are that you could tell that it's positivly a Trans Am,just to be sure it isnt a base, esprit, Formula,or even a sky or yellow or blue bird.Did they make those in 1980? Anyhow,when you stated that the cowl tag was missing,that threw up a huge flag,people dont just remove those for something to do, it's for a reason, and when your dealin with cars; its usually to hide something.Burns me up to see your situation . Usually I carry the good 'ol book Firebird ID Numbers with me to check out cars. You will have to find out what year the motor is if your going to rebuild it.Does the car have rear disc brakes on it,and the sway bar? If so,chances are good that it is a WS6 car. Well at least the parts you bought wont go to waste,man do it how you want!! Someone probably ripped off the emission sticker by the hood latch too. Good luck!

...Hold up on the car wash,fellas! -Buford T. Justice

[s.a.steel]

"What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack a respest for the law!"- Buford T. Justice... I really appreciate everyone's genuine interest in my situation. Thanks!! I'll continue to post updates if anything interesting comes up.

[Brian Baker]

Well, I just hope it wasn't sold to you as a 10th anniversary car and you didn't pay a 10th anniversary price for it.

It's a 4-speed and it's a 1980, so we know it didn't have a 400 originally. It was either a 301 or a 305 Chevy.

My only worries would be if the car was ever stolen at one point and that's the reason for the VIN "rebadging".

Suspension options will give more clues as to it being a T/A originally or not. Rear disc brakes? What are the size of the sway bars?

I'd shoot an e-mail to PHS and give them what you have off the firewall and see if they can decode it from there. Remember, no two car models from the same year had the same sequence number, so maybe they can search off of those last 6 digits?

[Brian Baker]

Build the car how you want it. You know it's not a 10th anniversary car now, and that it has been pieced together from other cars, so built it the way you want.

I'm wondering if that 400 is really a 400 and not a 301. Look at the oil filter and oil filter housing on the side of the block and tell us how it sits. The 301 used a small filter that stuck out at an odd angle whereas the other Pontiacs had one that was more vertical.

It's also possible that engine may be the 301's little brother, the 265.

[s.a.steel]

Rear disk- yes, front sway bar-1 1/4". Interestingly, the tail light lenses and front parking light lenses say 1979 on them. Is this significant? Other parts I've noticed also seem to reference 1979. The oil filter is on the passenger side of the block, slightly angling towards the block. Has 6x heads and Edelbrock performer intake, chrome valve covers. Engine was rebuilt shortly before I got it, and it has a ton of power. Not sure on rear end, but at 70mph, turns 3000rpm.

[David]

Well, we know it wasn't an original 4 speed car. No 80 came with it. So do you have the title for a four speed 10th anniversary and that matches the VIN in the dash? If so, you can reproduce a body tag as long as you can prove ownership. The only information that you won't have is the actual body #.

[Young One79TA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s.a.steel:
Rear disk- yes, front sway bar-1 1/4". Interestingly, the tail light lenses and front parking light lenses say 1979 on them. Is this significant? Other parts I've noticed also seem to reference 1979. The oil filter is on the passenger side of the block, slightly angling towards the block. Has 6x heads and Edelbrock performer intake, chrome valve covers. Engine was rebuilt shortly before I got it, and it has a ton of power. Not sure on rear end, but at 70mph, turns 3000rpm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the 1 1/4" sway bar and rear disc brakes suggest ws6 and the fact that you have 6X heads suggests that it is a 350-455 Pontiac engine. So I'm guessing either someone had a ws6 parts car or it originally was one. But at least they helped your 80 T/A out by putting in a better engine and trans. Just hope you didn't pay more than you should have by being mislead. But I guess it's yours to do what you want now.

[dyingbreed]

70 mph @ approximately 3000 rpm would most likely suggest a 3.23 ratio rear end.

db

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Making a living is not the same thing as making a life!!

[s.a.steel]

Found the VIN by the timing cover. It reads:27n135413. 2=pontiac, 7=1977, n=norwood,next 6 are sequence numbers. Well, so far, this the third VIN I've found! I would still like to identify this motor, though. Some of these casting numbers aren't easy to read, though. Any advise would be welcomed.

[David]

Steel, look for the two letter code by the VIN. That'll tell us exacty what that motor is.

[s.a.steel]

Well, I now know that I have a 400. The two letters by the timing cover are WA, indicating a 1977 T/A 6.6, 200HP 400. That's a relief!

[Brian Baker]

Those were good running engines. Easily capable of 14 second times with a free flowing exhaust and some tuning.

1980 body with a 1979 VIN and a 1977 drivetrain.

I'd say that car has been through the ringer.

I wouldn't get too concerned about all of this (unless of course you thought you were buying a 10th anniversary and paid dearly for it)...build it the way you like.