[spb350]

Two nice original parts.

[FloridaFirebird]

How about a link to them?

Thanks

[toomanybirds]

Starter link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/73-74...em300290958486

I have two original 74 SD-455 TA's with starter number 1108226.

The starter in this auction, 1108500, was used on most 400 and 455 engines from 70-74.

The heat shield on this starter is from a later year, it is larger than the original SD heat shield.

It is my opinion that this is not an original SD starter.

Other opinions?

[spb350]

The guy I got this from worked at a GM warehouse in the 70's. I recently bought his SD motor and all the accessories he had for it. He told me all the parts were specifically ordered for the SD motor, he got the the block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, carb, PCV assembly, starter, dist and any other SD parts he could order out of the GM catalogs. The parts were not ordered until 1974 but all of the other parts are SD parts so I assumed this part was too. I guess if anyone here can show me where this is not a SD starter I will change the ad. Anybody here have an original 73 or 74 SD that came with this starter? Any pics of SD heat shields? Thanks

[toomanybirds]

I am not trying to start an argument or kill an ebay auction, just trying to provide accurate information for anyone who may be interested.

In many cases, parts ordered as replacement are not the same as original equipment.

I looked in an old parts book that was printed in September 1974. It shows starter part number 1108500 as the correct replacement for all 400 and 455 engines from 70-74. There was no separate listing for SD-455 or 455-HO engines. This means that if you went to the Pontiac parts counter in late 1974 and ordered a starter for a 74 SD-455, you would have gotten part number 1108500.

Numerous original cars, and service manuals confirm that the Ram Air, HO and SD engines had unique starters as original equipment.

Starter number 1108436 was original on 70 Ram Air III/IV, 71-72 455-HO, and 73 SD-455.

Starter number 1108226 was original equipment on 1974 SD-455.

Starter number 1108500 could be correctly described as a service replacement for the SD-455, but not as an original equipment starter.

For documentation of this, look in a factory service manual. On the last page of the "Engine Electrical" section is a chart that lists the starters by application.

One of my 74 SD cars is apart, and I could photograph the starter. I just don't have time today.

[spb350]

I revised the ad to say this could be a replacement starter. Thanks for the info, I don't want somebody to buy the wrong part.

[SD Formula]

Originally Posted by toomanybirds

I am not trying to start an argument or kill an ebay auction, just trying to provide accurate information for anyone who may be interested.

In many cases, parts ordered as replacement are not the same as original equipment.

I looked in an old parts book that was printed in September 1974. It shows starter part number 1108500 as the correct replacement for all 400 and 455 engines from 70-74. There was no separate listing for SD-455 or 455-HO engines. This means that if you went to the Pontiac parts counter in late 1974 and ordered a starter for a 74 SD-455, you would have gotten part number 1108500.

Numerous original cars, and service manuals confirm that the Ram Air, HO and SD engines had unique starters as original equipment.

Starter number 1108436 was original on 70 Ram Air III/IV, 71-72 455-HO, and 73 SD-455.

Starter number 1108226 was original equipment on 1974 SD-455.

Starter number 1108500 could be correctly described as a service replacement for the SD-455, but not as an original equipment starter.

For documentation of this, look in a factory service manual. On the last page of the "Engine Electrical" section is a chart that lists the starters by application.

One of my 74 SD cars is apart, and I could photograph the starter. I just don't have time today.

Not to dispute your information, but, except for my old 40th edition Motors Manual, this is the first I've heard of the 1108226 being the original starter for a 74 SD. Even the Mot.Man. shows the 1108226 to be used for both the 73 & 74 SD. I thought the information in the Mot.Man. was a mis-print because, the Pontiac Service Manuals for both 73 & 74 (pages 6E-42 & 6E-39) show the same starter number (1108436) to be used on both 73 & 74 SD's. This is rather confusing! Do you know if there was any carry over from 73 to 74 on the starters? My 74 SD is a fairly early car, thus could have received a 73 SD starter??? Although, when I received the car in 1990 it had a 1108430 with a date of 3B13-6. I have been looking for a correctly dated 1108436, should I now be looking for a 1108226 to have a correct starter? Opinions please.

[SD Formula]

I probably should have started a new thread on the SD forum for this subject. Sorry!

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by SD Formula

Not to dispute your information, but, except for my old 40th edition Motors Manual, this is the first I've heard of the 1108226 being the original starter for a 74 SD. Even the Mot.Man. shows the 1108226 to be used for both the 73 & 74 SD. I thought the information in the Mot.Man. was a mis-print because, the Pontiac Service Manuals for both 73 & 74 (pages 6E-42 & 6E-39) show the same starter number (1108436) to be used on both 73 & 74 SD's. This is rather confusing! Do you know if there was any carry over from 73 to 74 on the starters? My 74 SD is a fairly early car, thus could have received a 73 SD starter??? Although, when I received the car in 1990 it had a 1108430 with a date of 3B13-6. I have been looking for a correctly dated 1108436, should I now be looking for a 1108226 to have a correct starter? Opinions please.

It is true that the 74 service manual shows 1108436 for the SD-455. Remember that the manuals are printed well in advance of the production of the cars. Could an early 74 SD have had the 1108436 starter? I don't know, I suppose it is possible.

Here is the evidence for the 1108226 starter in the 74 SD-455:

The 1974 "AMA" papers that are included with the PHS package list the 1108226 starter for the SD-455.

All copies of original "build sheets" or "broadcast sheets" for 74 SD-455 cars that I have seen show "226" in box number 30 "start motor"

The 1108436 starter is listed in the 1973 AMA papers. Build sheets for 73 SD cars show "436" in box 30.

[SD Formula]

I looked at the MVMA specs. under starter & clearly it says 1108226 S.D. Next question do you have an extra 8226 starter that would have the proper date for my SD (Nov 73 11C). If so do you want to sell it, if so how much? Thanks for the lesson in SDology.

Originally Posted by toomanybirds

It is true that the 74 service manual shows 1108436 for the SD-455. Remember that the manuals are printed well in advance of the production of the cars. Could an early 74 SD have had the 1108436 starter? I don't know, I suppose it is possible.

Here is the evidence for the 1108226 starter in the 74 SD-455:

The 1974 "AMA" papers that are included with the PHS package list the 1108226 starter for the SD-455.

All copies of original "build sheets" or "broadcast sheets" for 74 SD-455 cars that I have seen show "226" in box number 30 "start motor"

The 1108436 starter is listed in the 1973 AMA papers. Build sheets for 73 SD cars show "436" in box 30.

[toomanybirds]

Sorry, no extra SD starters.

I have two 74 SD's missing the original starters.

So, if you find more than one, or one with a date code later than your car, please let me know.

[SD Formula]

Originally Posted by toomanybirds

Sorry, no extra SD starters.

I have two 74 SD's missing the original starters.

So, if you find more than one, or one with a date code later than your car, please let me know.

Well now that I know what numbers to be looking for. Who knows how many I may have passed up. Yeah right! Was that starter number used on any other GM product? You know, like the Firebird 80 amp 1101015 alternator also being used on 71-74 Cadillacs. Thanks again.

[toomanybirds]

Pontiac starters only fit Pontiacs, so no other applications.

The main housing is interchangeable to any GM starter with the high torque fields. Any GM starter that has been through a rebuilder could have the SD housing number on it.

So you could spend hours looking through all the rebuilt GM starters at your local part stores, but it would be a very long shot to find one.

[muscle_collector]

i remember back in 1979 sitting in a corvette club meeting and listening to the guys bash each others cars because one had the wrong part number this and that. i had just recently removed the intake, carb and exhaust manifolds on my vette and put an aluminum intake, holley and hooker headers on it. i left that night and never went back. i thought that was the most insane thing i had ever witnessed. it was nice to hang out with the pontiac and the street racers because the pontiac guys never gave a rip on anything except the basic block, heads intake matching and the street racers were all about changing things from stock. my dad told me not to throw away anything that i took off my cars because it was just a matter of time and all these old trans ams would be getting scrutinized just like the vettes. man was he right.

[spb350]

In case anybody is interested I still have the PCV assembly $300, thanks

[spb350]

PCV is sold

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

i remember back in 1979 sitting in a corvette club meeting and listening to the guys bash each others cars because one had the wrong part number this and that. i had just recently removed the intake, carb and exhaust manifolds on my vette and put an aluminum intake, holley and hooker headers on it. i left that night and never went back. i thought that was the most insane thing i had ever witnessed. it was nice to hang out with the pontiac and the street racers because the pontiac guys never gave a rip on anything except the basic block, heads intake matching and the street racers were all about changing things from stock. my dad told me not to throw away anything that i took off my cars because it was just a matter of time and all these old trans ams would be getting scrutinized just like the vettes. man was he right.

It is true that Corvette clubs tend to attract members that are overly anal or psychotic or both. And I agree that Pontiac owners mostly don't suffer from those afflictions.

I have been to car shows where there was critical "bashing" taking place and I have no interest in bashing or being bashed. That is why when I show a car, it is usually entered as display only, and I don't spend much time around my car listening to any critical comments. I spend my time enjoying the other cars at the show.

In the 70's, my driver was a 64 GTO convertible. I had "improved" it with a 455, turbo 400, disc brakes, variable ratio steering, big sway bars, 15" rally wheels, etc. It was done to suit me and no one else. Today, the average 64 GTO owner would want to have a car with original parts, in original or restored condition. I can and do appreciate both kinds of cars. It is the owners choice, other opinions don't matter.

This thread began with a starter for sale that was described inaccurately. I offered the seller some information that showed him that his part was not what he thought it was. I believe he was appreciative of the information. There may have been others readers of this thread who also appreciated the information. Some car owners like to learn all they can about their cars.

My point is some people care about the minute details like the correct number matching starter for an SD-455, others have no use for what they see as unimportant nonsense. I don't criticize either one. I can talk to either owner and appreciate their car for what it is.

So, let the numbers guys worry about the numbers, and let the anti-numbers guys not worry about them. There is room in this world for both kinds. I hope there is also room for me, a guy who understands both viewpoints.