[Trips4me]

Thanks, Steve... now it all makes sense. Expensive sense...

[larry davis]

I still want to eventually run a FI system on my 78. I couldn't realize anything close to the potential of my combo's power w/ the "Pro-jection" system as compared to a good carb.
When all is said & done in several years, there will be a turnkey system us Pontiakers can use; this intake combo is just the start.
Looks like cost w/ retro-fitting a FASt system & all hard parts will cost in the 4-5K range currently. Eventually we should be able to see a turnkey system in the high 2K-3K range?

[GoatRider]

EFI would be sweet for sure, just not in the budget.

What I can't figure out is how a ~1000cfm throttle body costs the same or more than a VERY nice 1000cfm carberator? And that's not even including the TPSensor or brackets!

I mean isn't it basically the same thing but with WAY less internal "works" inside????

[Trips4me]

It's probably a result of quantity... I suspect there are a LOT more carbs than TB's being mfg. Plus the cool factor adds another 500%.....Jim

[Hammered]

The Holley TB is 2.25" high and the Kinsler is 3" high. A Q-jet is 3.25" high and I forget how high the Edelbrock is. I chose the TII version of the EFI intake and Kinsler TB because it get's me to withing 1/8" of stock air cleaner height for my RA system. One thing to watchout for on the short TBs is that the linkage will come above the aircleaner lip during its travel. This could cause clearance problems with a stock type air cleaner base.

The Edelbrock TB looks cheap IMO. Stamped throttle levers and a very clunky setup for the IAC. The Kinsler piece is a work of art, but very expensive. The Holley and Accel TBs look like good compromises. You can get the Accel TB with TPS and IAC for $500-600.

I have found that one large hidden cost in these systems is the fuel tank mods, fuel pump, filters, regulator and AN fittings required to run 45+ psi fuel. I hope to have mine dynoed by the end of Nov.

John

[Skip Fix]

Another thought is using the shorter one and adding a spacer to increase plenum size. The GM TPI motors have a larger shared plenum.

[Skip Fix]

Trips there is one place that converts 2bbl carb for injectors. Saw a multi Stromberg system. Kept the nostalgia look too.

[Hammered]

Skip,

The problem I had with the short TBs was the throttle linkage interference with the air cleaner, otherwise I would've just added a spacer.

Kinsler might be the outfit you're thinking of. They can convert just about anything. They have a picture of a Pontiac caliope setup in their catalogue - talk about retro look!

J.

[Trips4me]

Thanks for all the input guys... good info. I had a basic understanding but it's much, much clearer now. Appreciate it..... Jim

[Skip Fix]

Hammered, you are one step ahead of me. EFI will eventually mnake it on my TA. I've been pleased with the Torker II on it so far running 10.90s with it. I also have a Holley Commander 950 and TBI 950 TBI setup new in box to use. Thought about having them upgrade it to the new Pro software and wide band O2 sensor so it tunes itself some.

The new pump gas motor for it is on the stand now.

Trips -Frisco TX . I remember when that was way out of Dallas on 2 lane Preston Road! We used to race off Preston and Arapaho when they had it divided it, lights but corn fields each side! Before the subdivisions started there.

[Hammered]

Skip,

We'll see about being one step ahead There's plenty of time left for me to have another hiccup. I researched the whole system very carefully before making my decisions and went low risk (which equals more dollars) on everything. If I have time, I'll try to lay all the pieces out next week and take a picture to post.

EFI system:
Rock Valley fuel tank with inline pump (255 lph)
1/2 supply, 3/8 return
Aeromotive 10 micron filter
Aeromotive pressure relief (regulator goes after the injectors)
Edelbrock EFI manifold and fuel rails
Bosch 42 lb injectors
Kinsler 1000 cfm TB w/GM TPS & IAC
Accel Gen 7 ECM
Accel wideband O2 sensor
Accel dual sync distributor
all on a 400 stroker with E heads and RA manifolds

John

[78 GHOST]

John, I can't wait for your pics. I have a silly question for you..

On these EFI systems, you guys are talking about TB units as if they're interchangable. I know the ECM prolly only cares about Ohms and Volts for each input, but how interchangable are they?

[Hammered]

Matt,

It's not a silly question. The compatibility is primarily with the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and Idle Air Control (IAC) valve that is used. Most everyone uses the same GM TPS and IAC which is also nice because you can get replacements at the local chain store. The Edelbrock TB comes with either GM or Mototron sensors. The Mototron sensors are for their kits (of which one is supposed to be available for Pontiac soon). I'm not sure about the availability of the Mototron sensors outside of Edelbrock. Kinsler uses both GM and Ford sensors and would probably adapt anything you want onto one of their TBs. The different TPS and IAC calibrations are taken care of in the ECM.

John

[Skip Fix]

Hammered, I'd really like to see some headers o your motor. I think you'd be happily suprised over the RA exhaust, especialy if you need 42LB injectors. Seems a little high to me for the exhaust restriction. Sounds like a great system. How good is that Rock Valley tank. The magazines seem to like them.

Cam selection?

[Hammered]

Skip,

The RA manifolds are the Super version that are expanded out to 3" collectors. I know they are still not as good as headers, but I have never liked any header I have ever bought so I'm trying these.

The RV tank is very well finished (it should be for the $$$). I like the fact that it has an in-tank pump and baffles, both important for a good efi system. I see too many people reporting problems with external pumps although they are much less expensive and easier to maintain. BTW, this tank is heavy - all SS construction.

Again, my approach is low risk and reliability since the whole thing is so new to me and there is not a lot of data on efi systems for Pontiacs.

John

[quicksilver97ta]

John, that sound like a very nice set up. I just read some stuff about that GEN 7 and it sounds great. Obviously you got the right distributor to work with it. have you been able to price any of these componants? I have not been able to find them for sale anywhere.

From HPP:
"As with other ACCEL/DFI 7.0+ products the LS1 kit is sold only through the company's nationwide network of more than 200 Engine Management Installation Centers (EMIC). This group of highly trained dealers can provide whatever level of service the Pontiac hobbyist desires. This ranges from an over-the-counter sale to a complete installation and calibration."

So what/where are these "EMIC"s?? (I assume this concerns all the GEN 7 stuff, not just the LS1 module.)

[Steve C.]

F.A.S.T. is now marketing a complete fuel system to make the switch from carburetion to EFI simplier. Covers street to drag race applications.
Kits include fuel pump, prefilter,post-filter,Y-block and fuel regulator, along wirh necessary fittings and wiring harnesses.

http://wwwfuelairspark.com

[Chris Petersen]

http://www.fuelairspark.com

forgot the . aftwr www

[455Turbo]

For a throttle body you can use a Ford style from Accufab or BBK but it will need an adapter. These throttle bodies are about $200 from Summit. I made my adapter out of 1/8" aluminum plate. This way I was able to fit my modified Victor manifold under a stock Turbo Trans Am hood.

I'm using FAST fuel injection with a Ford throttle position sensor.

[Skip Fix]

man that motor makes me dizzy looking at all the hoses and tubes! Pretty slick setup!