[rohrt]

I forget who told me to avoid BMR. They are cheaper for a reason. I think it was Marcus with Savitske. He is gone now after trying to steal people's Money, but was a wealth of knowledge for many years. There were a few reported issues with the weld quality or something like that. Same reports with the cheap ebay arms out of China too.

I put SPC on two of my cars. One is not on the road yet and for the other I can't really tell the difference but they were the right choice for me for a few reasons. They are also a bit of a PITA to install. I don't like that they don't have a bump stop, are held in by the shock and are a pain to adjust for most alignment shops.. On the flip side they are adjustable and you don't need a shim stack. I like JLMounce summation of the arms. too

I created a spreadheet of arms for myself, reading up on all the different top quality arms. Not a lot of price difference in the end. What I was looking for was if the arms have geometry change in them. Some are fully stock replacements. Some are better for the tall ball joint. Some have added caster in only the uppers and some have added caster in the uppers and lowers to help keep the tire centered in the wheel well.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I forget who told me to avoid BMR. They are cheaper for a reason. I think it was Marcus with Savitske. He is gone now after trying to steal people's Money, but was a wealth of knowledge for many years. There were a few reported issues with the weld quality or something like that. Same reports with the cheap ebay arms out of China too.

I put SPC on two of my cars. One is not on the road yet and for the other I can't really tell the difference but they were the right choice for me for a few reasons. They are also a bit of a PITA to install. I don't like that they don't have a bump stop, are held in by the shock and are a pain to adjust for most alignment shops.. On the flip side they are adjustable and you don't need a shim stack. I like JLMounce summation of the arms. too

I created a spreadheet of arms for myself, reading up on all the different top quality arms. Not a lot of price difference in the end. What I was looking for was if the arms have geometry change in them. Some are fully stock replacements. Some are better for the tall ball joint. Some have added caster in only the uppers and some have added caster in the uppers and lowers to help keep the tire centered in the wheel well.

Just a clarification here. SPC lower arms do have bump stops. You can either use the factory style rubber bump stops, or more preferably, you run the SPC jounce bumpers.

The upper arms do not contain a droop stop. This is typically not an issue on street cars, or cars that see auto-x and road course work. It can be an issue for drag cars that are able to pull the tires on launch. In that situation SPC does state in their instructions that use of a travel limiter is required.

SPC arms would not be the arms I would recommend for any serious effort drag car.

[vertigto]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I forget who told me to avoid BMR. They are cheaper for a reason. I think it was Marcus with Savitske. He is gone now after trying to steal people's Money, but was a wealth of knowledge for many years. There were a few reported issues with the weld quality or something like that. Same reports with the cheap ebay arms out of China too.

Interesting...I talked to Mark before going with BMR. Honestly, after 2.5 hours of self-promotion and bad-mouthing other vendors, I decided to steer clear. He wouldn't directly answer any of my very simple questions. Even if his products are/were better, I couldn't give him my $$.

BMR on the other hand answered everything I asked and gave advice on other items and vendors that fit the bill. Always willing to chat, even though I called a few times. Customer service is important to me.

[dhcarguy]

When I was replacing my REAR suspension , I went with BMR. I talked to a few vendors ,and the person I talked to at BMR was VERY helpful and took the time to answer all my questions. Parts were easy to install and have not had any issues with them.
So with that ,I would not hesitate to do the front with BMR also. And best of all was the price

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Just a clarification here. SPC lower arms do have bump stops. You can either use the factory style rubber bump stops, or more preferably, you run the SPC jounce bumpers.

The upper arms do not contain a droop stop. This is typically not an issue on street cars, or cars that see auto-x and road course work. It can be an issue for drag cars that are able to pull the tires on launch. In that situation SPC does state in their instructions that use of a travel limiter is required.

SPC arms would not be the arms I would recommend for any serious effort drag car.

Thanks for that Clarification JLMounce. That is correct. I have the SPC Lower control arms as well with the SPC bumpers. I went with them since they move the LBJ forward 1 deg.

Originally Posted by vertigto

Interesting...I talked to Mark before going with BMR. Honestly, after 2.5 hours of self-promotion and bad-mouthing other vendors, I decided to steer clear. He wouldn't directly answer any of my very simple questions. Even if his products are/were better, I couldn't give him my $$.

BMR on the other hand answered everything I asked and gave advice on other items and vendors that fit the bill. Always willing to chat, even though I called a few times. Customer service is important to me.

I only talked with Markus on two different occasions. He must have got the biggest kick back on SPC arms to push them so hard. He always did maintain that going with SPC uppers and stock lowers was the best bang for the buck. That is what I did with one of my cars. No regrets. He really was a pitch man.

I guess I never got much hate from him about other products. He was a dealer for a lot of places.

Don't quote me on the BRM thing. Not 100% sure on that anymore. I remember looking for the next least expensive arms above the Chinese ebay ones. What ever arm it was Marcus told some story about the arms smacking the frame hard on a customer car and having a crack in them. So I don't recall anymore if it was BMR or not anymore.

Markus was an interesting guy. In many cases he promoted keeping GM parts verses selling aftermarket. He was very opiniated too. Not sure what his downfall was.

Sorry for the rambling.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by rohrt

Thanks for that Clarification JLMounce. That is correct. I have the SPC Lower control arms as well with the SPC bumpers. I went with them since they move the LBJ forward 1 deg.



I only talked with Markus on two different occasions. He must have got the biggest kick back on SPC arms to push them so hard. He always did maintain that going with SPC uppers and stock lowers was the best bang for the buck. That is what I did with one of my cars. No regrets. He really was a pitch man.

I guess I never got much hate from him about other products. He was a dealer for a lot of places.

Don't quote me on the BRM thing. Not 100% sure on that anymore. I remember looking for the next least expensive arms above the Chinese ebay ones. What ever arm it was Marcus told some story about the arms smacking the frame hard on a customer car and having a crack in them. So I don't recall anymore if it was BMR or not anymore.

Markus was an interesting guy. In many cases he promoted keeping GM parts verses selling aftermarket. He was very opiniated too. Not sure what his downfall was.

Sorry for the rambling.

SC&C's downfall was not running a company well. Markus is a knowledgeable guy and willing to share that knowledge with people. Even if you weren't expecting to receive it over the course of a 2 hour phone call.

At the end it was pretty clear that he was taking orders and using those funds to purchase and ship products for older orders. I'm glad I have his street comp 2+ setup on my car, it performs amazingly. Of course it's just the SPC parts with quality tall ball-joints to correct camber gain and bump steer. You can still put this kit together yourself.

In regards to the BMR arms, I've never seen any issues with myself. They seem like quality parts, they are just geared more towards cruisers than track cars. You can get them with rubber bushings, they don't have a lot of alteration from factory etc.

As far as taking damage goes, no arm is going to be impervious there. I watched a nice 68 Camaro slide into a concrete barricade after over-running the shutdown box at this past year's Good Guys Colorado Nationals. The driver tried maneuvering away from it, but with the brakes locked you don't turn. He smacked the passenger side wheel and destroyed the nice Forgeline wheel on that side as well as the Detroit Speed upper and Lowers on the car. I believe the knuckle took damage as well.

So any arm hit in the correct manner with enough force is going to take damage.

[65catalina]

[QUOTE
"What I would do instead is have new, quality high durometer rubber bushings put in the stock control arms and add a .5" tall ball joint to the upper control arm. You could also do solid bushings if you wanted, but it's probably overkill for you. Going this route is going to reduce deflection in the system and start correcting the camber curve of the factory suspension in bump and droop without the need for steering angle to do it. It's also going to save you probably $700.00 bucks, which I would use to fund a set of springs, shocks, and a steering rebuild that includes a modernized steering gear.

The whole package I would put together for you based on what you've mentioned is as follows.

-Stock upper and lower control arms, rebuilt with high durometer rubber bushings, .5" tall ball joint on upper arm, factory ball joint on lower arm
-Global West 1" lowering springs front and rear
-Koni Classic shocks (reds)
-Factory steering rebuild (moog)
-Lares or Borgeson .210 torsion bar steering gear with faster ratio (can do Lee or Turn10, but the cost goes way up)
-Helwig front and rear sway bar

Align the front end at these settings

-0.5* Camber
+3* Caster (or as close as the factory arms will allow)
1/16th" toe in

Combined with the 17" wheel and tire package you're looking at, I really feel that you'd enjoy this ride without breaking the bank.[/QUOTE]"



I am going to go this route with my 71 GTO. My question is that I purchased Moog moog-k6148 | Front Control Arm Shaft That provides Additional Camber Adjustment. I have heard it was 2*, and also read that you should install these backwards? to achieve better results. Does anyone have experience with this and how it should be mounted? Thanks, Ed. (Somehow I did that quote function wrong, sorry)

[cdnturboz]

When everyone is saying high quality durometer rubber bushings - what are you referring to?

Just standard Moog rubber from RockAuto, etc?

Thanks,

[JLMounce]

Here's a good explanation of bushing durometer.

https://www.suspension.com/blog/durometer/

At least on the first gen f-bodies, Pontiac actually used slightly higher durometer bushing material than what was used in the Camaro. This is part of what created handling differences between the car. The Firebird effectively had a higher wheel rate as the factory bushing resisted twist more than the Camaro bushing.

A quality Moog rubber bushing is likely all you have available right now and it's likely constructed based on chevy car parameters. You can have customized bushings made from various different rubber hardness, but as with all custom parts, that deal starts to get expensive.

I don't typically recommend poly bushings, but that is an option. They do tend to squeak as they dry out. The Poly Graphite material bushings from places like PST will get rid of the squeak, add durometer to the bushing and still provide cushioning against NVH. However the graphite impregnation process on these style bushings tends to make degrade in a significantly shorter time than rubber or poly. Depending on vehicle usage you may have to change the bushings every 5-7 years or so.

Delrin bushings like what you would get in RideTech's rebuild kits for the factory arms, or it's Street Grip kits, is the ultimate bushing for the factory control arms, but will increase NVH to a certain degree. If you have a low tolerance I'd avoid them, if you don't mind a little harshness and thudiness from the suspension, the performance benefits are worth it.

[AG]

Originally Posted by 65catalina

[QUOTE
"What I would do instead is have new, quality high durometer rubber bushings put in the stock control arms and add a .5" tall ball joint to the upper control arm. You could also do solid bushings if you wanted, but it's probably overkill for you. Going this route is going to reduce deflection in the system and start correcting the camber curve of the factory suspension in bump and droop without the need for steering angle to do it. It's also going to save you probably $700.00 bucks, which I would use to fund a set of springs, shocks, and a steering rebuild that includes a modernized steering gear.

The whole package I would put together for you based on what you've mentioned is as follows.

-Stock upper and lower control arms, rebuilt with high durometer rubber bushings, .5" tall ball joint on upper arm, factory ball joint on lower arm
-Global West 1" lowering springs front and rear
-Koni Classic shocks (reds)
-Factory steering rebuild (moog)
-Lares or Borgeson .210 torsion bar steering gear with faster ratio (can do Lee or Turn10, but the cost goes way up)
-Helwig front and rear sway bar

Align the front end at these settings

-0.5* Camber
+3* Caster (or as close as the factory arms will allow)
1/16th" toe in

Combined with the 17" wheel and tire package you're looking at, I really feel that you'd enjoy this ride without breaking the bank.

"



I am going to go this route with my 71 GTO. My question is that I purchased Moog moog-k6148 | Front Control Arm Shaft That provides Additional Camber Adjustment. I have heard it was 2*, and also read that you should install these backwards? to achieve better results. Does anyone have experience with this and how it should be mounted? Thanks, Ed. (Somehow I did that quote function wrong, sorry)[/QUOTE]

I've used the Moog offset arm for more caster and I installed them per the directions, got about 2 more degrees caster.

[Tarl]

Ditto on the SPC's, I used them on my 66 lemans and made custom bump stops out of 1/4 stock that bolt onto them around the ball joint. I used Global West on my 68 Firebird and if I had to do them again, I would chose the SPC's because my drivers side frame has excessive negative camber even with low caster. I have to buy the Global West offset shafts in order to dial in what I want. If I had SPC's I would have been able to dial it in correct the first time.

[Skip Fix]

Global upper and lowers on the 81 TA, IA Camaro global drag uppers. Even with stock lowers it has negative camber no shims.

[Tom Vaught]

Global Uppers and Factory 1972 lowers, Tom Lee steering box.

Tom V.

[65madgoat]

Ridetech makes stuff now too for your a-body.

https://www.ridetech.com/product-cat...1972_chevelle/

SPC may be good as long as you get their new designed upper arms. Their old style upper arms are TROUBLE (ask me how I know)

Global West many run with no complaints.

[LKLusza]

Global West on all four corners for my '70 GTO. Also used the RideTech tall upper ball joints as well as their single adjustable shocks. Urethane bushings on the stock front sway bar and stayed with the stock coil springs.
Great combination so far - really transformed the ride and handling of the car.

[goat69SD]

I used CCP on all 4 corners when I built my 71 Chevelle. I am happy with the way the car handles and rides. So that is what I used on the GTO. My GTO isn't done yet so can't say on this car but both A bodies so shouldn't be any difference. Over all the price and ease of installation seemed good to me. Pretty complete kit with a good rear sway bar.

[imposter]

SPC upper and lower front arms with varishocks on my 66 as well no issues ever and got them from mark savitske great knowledge car handles fantastic

[brut4s]

i went with Global West nice kit. The owner is a Pontiac guy and developed his A body kits using his "65 GTO

[David Jones]

I have no experience with aftermarket front suspension parts, but did install BMR upper and lower rear control arms in November of 2002. 20+ years later there have been no issues.

[TA63]

I have a stage 3 kit from UMI waiting to go on my 72 lemans project. I haven't installed anything yet, but going through the kit I am impressed with the fit and finish so far. Their tech support was incredibly helpful and responsive as well.