[68gtoMN]

Like Paul, I have owned a 68 GTO for decades (1980) and have collected, parted, hunted, photographed, chronicled and watched 68 GTOs ever since. I have judged at the GTOAA also. In the thousands of cars I have examined, my experience mirrors Paul's. The claims of someone owning a unicorn is more believable to me...

[judger69]

Originally Posted by PaulatFast

Bad info. I have had a standing offer of 1000.00 cash for either a 68 model year #62 head or a 69 model year #16. This goes back 25 years. They don't exist. The original source of this bad info seams to be the factory MPC. Now the most cited source is Wallace Racing! Lol.

Paulat - This set of 16's in the F.S. section by John Eiseman have a date code of G088.


"Hot tanked and magnafluxed block cast # 9790071 standard bore, # 16 heads , hot tanked and magnafluxed, virgin heads, N iron crank# 9773524 standard. Dates G088 on both block and heads. 750.00 Plus shipping."


Could these July 1968 cast #16 heads be on a early 1969 model year Car if the 1969 production year started in Aug of 1968 as Kurt said above? Could it be a switchover to the new model year thing?

link to the FS ad http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=751082



BTW Kurt, I found a couple of R/A 28273's that someone might give up if you are still interested. I bought one for myself but found a couple more. Not sure on dates though.

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by judger69

Paulat - This set of 16's in the F.S. section by John Eiseman have a date code of G088.


"Hot tanked and magnafluxed block cast # 9790071 standard bore, # 16 heads , hot tanked and magnafluxed, virgin heads, N iron crank# 9773524 standard. Dates G088 on both block and heads. 750.00 Plus shipping."


Could these July 1968 cast #16 heads be on a early 1969 model year Car if the 1969 production year started in Aug of 1968 as Kurt said above? Could it be a switchover to the new model year thing?

link to the FS ad http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=751082



BTW Kurt, I found a couple of R/A 28273's that someone might give up if you are still interested. I bought one for myself but found a couple more. Not sure on dates though.

The partial VIN will tell us if this was an 8 or 9... I requested it from John. My money is on it being a late 68.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by tom s

NHRA also lets a 428 in a bird!Tom

I'm just curious about this. I assume you are talking about the GT Super Stock class ??

In GT they allow an alum head 428 in most any GM. One guy is running real quick with one in a little Chevy--I think it's a Cobalt. So, it may not be a fair comparison, in this case, to say they let Birds run a 428, since most any GM can run one.

But, there are a LOT of NHRA rules I don't understand. Like, on these old cars, which sometimes have hard to find & in some cases very expensive heads, why don't they either allow similar stock heads, or aftermarket alum heads, with appropriate hp factors. Since they allow aftermarket blocks, rods, pistons, & Q-jets, why not heads, too. It would save the round port Stock racers some $$, for sure.

Just looked up a '69 GTO 350hp 400. They allow 16 & 48 heads. Were either of these used on a '69 350hp GTO ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

On a '68 GTO 350hp 400, they allow 16 & 62 heads. But the allowable specs are the same for both heads, so they assume there would be no performance difference, I suppose. I reckin this is off subject for this thread. Sorry !

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

[tom s]

I think all stick shift 69 GTO 400s got 48s along with 350HOs.Tom

[Formulajones]

My father bought his 69 GTO new and still owns it. Build date on the cowl tag is 09C so it's a very early 68 build. The original 400/350hp engine has 62's on it. They are peculiar as the number is cast upside down.

I do know the original engine predates the car but how much I don't recall. Right now the engine is buried in the trailer. Will take some digging to get to it.

But based off this car, as early as it is, and knowing it's entire history, I'd have to say the possibility of 16's actually making it on early 69 GTO's would be extremely slim to none.

Another oddity, It's also one of the few I've seen that came originally with F70-14's rather than the commonly mentioned G's. May have also had something to do with it's early build, or the Baltimore plant, or..... But that's another subject.

[north]

Interesting about the F70, probably an error since the SS 396 built on the same line used F rather than the larger G's used on GTO.

[Formulajones]

He never really thought much of it over the years until just a couple years ago. It still has it's original F70-14 white stripe spare tire, never on the ground with the sticker still attached to the tread, mounted on it's original IH wheel (I think that's the code) sitting in the trunk. The other matching wheels are stored on the mezzanine. I tend to think it might have been a mix up with the chevelles, or maybe a shortage of G's at that plant on that day or something...who knows.

Another controversy on this car is the black out tail panel. Was always thought to not be correct, even a certain magazine editor disagreed until blue in the face, standing there talking to my dad (the original owner) It wasn't until a year later this fact was documented on Baltimore early built cars. That same magazine editor had it in his mag a year later, but he didn't want to talk to us about it afterwards when we bumped into him at the Pontiac Nats, funny stuff.

[north]

Does the invoice show the car having optional tires or nothing? Nothing meant either the G78 red or no charge G78 white. G78 fiberglass or G70's were extra. The other possibility is that the dealer swapped wheels and tires. Maybe your dad wanted whites or the took your dad's redlined to give them to someone else. My friend bought a 69 GTO new and it had rally 2's and a wider whitewall than the correct 3/8. Years later he got the PHS and discovered that the car was built with dogfish, his wheels (14x7 rally's ) and tires must have been yanked off of a new GP based on the size of the wheel and the type of tires.

As for the tail panel blackout they seem to have done it until sometime in October, and it was done in many plants including Fremont. I've seen it also on early full sized Pontiacs too from many plants.

[Formulajones]

A white stripe tire is called out on the invoice so I assume it's an optional white stripe tire or nothing would be there, but no size is specified.

Dad bought the car as it was, in the dealer show room at Marsh Pontiac. Came originally with the steel wheel/dog dish caps. Car wasn't optioned with much else, PS, PDB, white vinyl top, 400 turbo and tinted glass. I believe it was a fresh arrival at the time, he had been shopping there as well as the chevy dealer down the street, then bought the GTO when it showed up the next day. Can't say for sure the wheels were switched but given the short amount of time the dealer had it.....:shrug: I guess it's all just guess work at this point really. Back then it just wasn't a concern. Funny how that's all changed now.

[north]

If it is on the window sticker but not on the PHS it would be the G78 nylon white line. No one knew back then what components were really in their cars. I met a fellow at the POCI nationals 20 years ago who bought a 69 GTO new (from Royal) and paid $650 for a 428 swap (like in C&D). Many years later when it was being restored they ran the VIN on the 428, it came from a 68 GP (it was a 375 horse 428 not an HO) that had also been shipped to Royal. I wonder if the guy who bought that brand new 68 GP realized that his 428 was really a GTO 400?

[Formulajones]

He has all the paper work, POP, etc... I'm pretty sure it was all listed on there. I'd have to look at it again though.

[north]

Really neat he still owns it, not many original owners still having a GTO today. He should go for the original owner award from POCI. It's an exclusive club!

The VIN for a Baltimore 09C must be in the 105xxx to 108xxx?

[Formulajones]

Ha, I had no idea there was such a club. I doubt he's aware of it.

I had to go look at the vin. 110xxx

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think all stick shift 69 GTO 400s got 48s along with 350HOs.Tom

Yes.

And all 68 GTO's and firebird 400's, other than RA cars, received #16's.

[Mark P.]

New here. Was looking online to find out what my heads were.
They came off a 455 that had a cracked block in a 65 le mans.
Stamped 62 with an Id# L148.
The letter D on the right side with#'s 36 above that
GM on the left side with the letters DN
Are those a 62 head from 1968?
Thanks
Mark

[north]

1969 model year 62 heads cast on November 14 1968.

[Mark P.]

Thank you for that information! They have been sitting in my garage for close to 35 years now. I was told that they were the only thing worth anything out of that engine. Not sure what something like that would be worth?

[north]

They were used on many higher performance 400 and 428 engines that year including automatic GTO’s, all Firebird 400’s except RA IV and many GP and full sized engines including the 428 HO.

In as-is but nothing obviously wrong condition they typically sell in the range of $400-700.