#41  
Old 05-09-2020, 06:01 PM
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Thank you Grand73Am- great photo and information. Nice looking interior. I will check the wiring for the PW system- make sure that it is all there before I purchase all for the PW setup. I am sure I have to look for a PW relay. I already know there is a second pigtailed wire from where the tach gets its power source at the Fuse Block. I am sure the second pink/black pigtail powers the relay for the windows. I hope it is all there and not hacked up. I see wires inside the boots in the door jambs. I will pull the door panels and see what I have. - Maybe there are power locks buried too.

Advice on the rear end needed:
I just did the poor mans test to try and verify gear ratio of the rear end. The seller told me they were 3.73 gears. I turned the wheel one revolution and the driveshaft turned more than 3.25 times but under 3.5 times. I believe it to be 3.33 rear end gears. Is that about right as I am trying to find a good speedo gear to make the speedo correct.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

  #42  
Old 05-09-2020, 06:22 PM
Grand73Am Grand73Am is offline
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The pw relay is above the right side of the steering column, under the dash. The only thing that relay does is make it so you have to turn the ignition key for the windows to work. It shouldn't even be called a relay, since it doesn't do what a real relay does. And it often goes bad, which prevents the windows from working. That's another reason someone might have removed the power windows...because they didn't know how to fix it, or couldn't find another relay, since new ones aren't available. Since the relay is not necessary, I always bypass it. There's a power wire that runs from the pw switch to the relay. I'm pretty sure it's a 12 gauge pink. If you cut and run that pink wire to a 12v constant power source on the fuse panel, the windows will work. And they'll work without the key, which is how p. windows used to work on older cars.

For the rear end ratio, the ratios available in that vicinity was 3.23 and 3.42, so likely the 3.42's.

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Old 05-09-2020, 06:27 PM
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if the gears weren't changed, you can look on the passenger side axle tube for the stamped code to identify the factory gear ratio.

  #44  
Old 05-09-2020, 07:35 PM
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The rear end gears were changed which is why the speedometer runs fast. When I am traveling at 70mph the speedo reeds approx. 95mph - I tracked it with the vehicle behind me asking the speed we were traveling.
I am wanting to purchase the correct speedo driven gear thinking that someone that has a 3.42 rear end would know which speedo gear to purchase. I have been advised of the calculations to determine but that requires knowing which gear is in the transmission - I believe the speedo gears have not been altered from stock. Does anyone know what the driven speedo gear is in the 403 transmission. Or, has anyone upgraded their transmission to run with a 3.42 rear end and which speedo gear is used.

  #45  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
The pw relay is above the right side of the steering column, under the dash. The only thing that relay does is make it so you have to turn the ignition key for the windows to work. It shouldn't even be called a relay, since it doesn't do what a real relay does. And it often goes bad, which prevents the windows from working. That's another reason someone might have removed the power windows...because they didn't know how to fix it, or couldn't find another relay, since new ones aren't available. Since the relay is not necessary, I always bypass it. There's a power wire that runs from the pw switch to the relay. I'm pretty sure it's a 12 gauge pink. If you cut and run that pink wire to a 12v constant power source on the fuse panel, the windows will work. And they'll work without the key, which is how p. windows used to work on older cars.
I found that relay - pictured below - silver in color has pink 12 gauge, Orange/Black 12 gauge, and a Pink/Black 18 gauge wires going to it. I believe the Pink/Black from the fuse block turns on with the ignition, the Orange/Black must bring unswitched fused power from the fuse block then is switched on with the ignition via the Pink/Black wire then 12v must exit the "relay" (mounted to the top of the steering column on the right) to the Power Window switch. If I bypass the relay box - do I need to fuse the pink wire? Or should I mount a separate relay to power the windows?
Picture below is of the orange/black and Pink/black. the Orange/black wire is not connected to anything currently which brings more confusion.
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  #46  
Old 05-11-2020, 11:27 PM
Grand73Am Grand73Am is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i4abuygto View Post
I found that relay - pictured below - silver in color has pink 12 gauge, Orange/Black 12 gauge, and a Pink/Black 18 gauge wires going to it. I believe the Pink/Black from the fuse block turns on with the ignition, the Orange/Black must bring unswitched fused power from the fuse block then is switched on with the ignition via the Pink/Black wire then 12v must exit the "relay" (mounted to the top of the steering column on the right) to the Power Window switch. If I bypass the relay box - do I need to fuse the pink wire? Or should I mount a separate relay to power the windows?
Picture below is of the orange/black and Pink/black. the Orange/black wire is not connected to anything currently which brings more confusion.
I believe you're correct in your assessment of the wires. To verify, you could use a test light to verify that the orange/black wire is hot, which it most likely is. If you cut off the pink wire from the relay, which should be the wire coming from the pw switch connector, and connect it to the orange/black wire, then the windows would work, if you had power windows .

Concerning the speedo drive gear in the transmission, I looked back at some pics of my th350 from my 79 TA when I had it apart. It's yellow, which is supposed to be 19 teeth. So, maybe yours is too. With the driven gear "bullet" out of the hole, you could probably see inside the tail housing with a light to verify what color you have. On this TCI speedo calculator page, the chart for th350 speedo gears tells how many teeth a particular color drive gear, and driven gear, has. https://www.tciauto.com/speedometer-gear-calculator

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  #47  
Old 05-12-2020, 11:15 PM
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Thank you Grand73Am, Your knowledge and help is much appreciated.

My hope is that I have the same yellow gear in the transmission - that will help a lot. I look forward to not - pegging the speedo at plus 100 mph.

The Power Window thing is that the Orange/Black wire is disconnected at the fuse block, so I will pull both door panels and make sure the wires are intact for the PWs and then just put voltage to the pink main and jumper across the main switch at the console and verify that I have voltage to both doors. Then, I will likely put in a separate relay under the dash so that I know that the windows have plenty of line voltage.

I have been driving the car a lot and my wife thinks I am trying to be a kid again. It is fun laying rubber for 30 yards into second gear. She HATES the loud pipes when I pull up to the house. The car just has straight glass packs for mufflers. I kind of like it but it is loud with a heavy drone. So, I will likely put in some nice "Straight Through" mufflers. I am also now dealing with a carb issue. It ran great for several days, now it seems to be loading up at start up and runs really rough until it warms up. I think maybe the float is stuck. I pulled it in the garage a couple days ago running fine. The next day it started rough and almost seems to be misfiring.
I think a carb rebuild is in the near future - probably before anything else.

  #48  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:20 AM
Grand73Am Grand73Am is offline
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You're welcome.

Below is a pic of the fuse panel, so you can see where the orange/black stripe wire plugs on for power windows.

If you have a Quadra-Jet, the best place to get a rebuild kit is from Cliff Ruggles at cliffshighperformance.com .

GOLD 2 by grand73am, on Flickr

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  #49  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:27 PM
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Grand73Am,
Thank you for your help- it is great information. So yesterday the stud broke on the carburetor that holds the air intake and the shaker was hanging loose which may be the reason of the carb issues- not sure yet. The carb is a Holley 750 model # 4779-7. The shaker hood was sitting off center and too far back and I want to get it centered correctly by fabricating a mounting plate as the existing one is off center as it sits on the carb.
In looking at photos, with the hood closed it looks like the back flat edge of the shaker scoop should be 1" forward of the rear flat side of the shaker cutout on the hood. Is that correct?
Pictured below is the scoop just sitting in position- 7/8" forward from the back of the rear hood scoop cutout. I have to make a mounting plate as the current position the scoop is off the plate to the drivers side.
I believe the scoop depth is correct as pictured. Is there any advantage to raising it up, so more scoop is out of the hood?
I know many questions and subjects here, but all is great info. Let me know if I overstay my welcome.
Thanks
Mark
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:01 PM
Grand73Am Grand73Am is offline
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There's going to be some variation in shaker positioning in the hood from car to car, due to differences in motor mount height, body mount cushion wear, and front sheet metal adjustment.

I have new original type rubber body mounts, and new motor mounts, and the sheet metal is pretty square .

I measured at the rear center of my shaker, since that's the easiest to measure at the same place. The flat flange on the shaker is about 1.25" down in the hole, below the hood surface. So, the shaker stands about 2" above the hood surface there.

Also, measuring between the rear center of the shaker and the edge of the hood hole, I get about 1.25".

As long as the shaker looks pretty centered in the hole, you're doing good. Yours doesn't look too bad as it is. I think you could use a little more room in the back as you thought. From what I can tell your height looks good. There's no advantage to raising it up more than stock.

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  #51  
Old 05-15-2020, 12:55 AM
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You have been very helpful, Thank you.
I will have more to come.
Thanks
Mark

  #52  
Old 05-15-2020, 10:47 AM
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As already mentioned in regards to speedo, there are two gears that make up combinations. No reason to believe either is original, or the transmission or the rear end. So you need to pop the end off where the speedo cable installs and identify what is there. The best outcome is for only the outer gear to swap if possible or you need to pull the trans tail off for the other.

  #53  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:15 AM
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Thanks guys for your help - I have put off the speedo correction until I can get under the car to see what is there.
Fuel gauge quit working- tested the gauge with a external sending unit for my GTO and the gauge works - I know the feeder wire behind the dash is tan for the fuel. I want to check it from the rear of the car.
Can you tell me the color and location that I can find the fuel sending wire as it exits the tank. I want to check the continuity of the wire all the way from the rear before I order a new sender and drop the tank to replace.
What color is it in the back and does it come up through the trunk. Where is the easiest point to access the fuel sending wire with the tank still mounted?
On a better note - the tach circuit board came in and I replaced it and it bench tested works. The circuit board for the dash gauges had been worked on by someone in the past - several of the traces had been repaired with solder and wire. I had to repair one of the traces to a speedo light that didn't work. All works now.
I just need to fix the fuel gauge and all is good.
Thanks Grand73Am for your advice on the dash - just clear coated the dash bezel and it looks great - painted the gauge surrounds as advised.
Are the letters for the lights wiper wash plate suppose to be clear or painted white?
Thanks for anything you all can help me with.
Mark


Last edited by i4abuygto; 05-19-2020 at 12:24 AM.
  #54  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:42 AM
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The fuel gauge has a ground wire in the trunk, have you checked that? That is typically a reason they stop working.

  #55  
Old 05-19-2020, 09:04 AM
Grand73Am Grand73Am is offline
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Glad to hear that your dash bezel turned out nice.

For the gas sender wires, there's a tan wire and black wire coming off of the fuel sender unit on top of the tank. Of course you can't access the wires where they connect to the sender unit without dropping the tank. But, the black wire screws to the rear frame rail for the ground, and could be a dirty, rusty connection there. The tan wire plugs into a small round black connector mounted on the rear frame rail, underneath where the gas filler neck is. You'll have to get on the ground and look up at the rear frame rail to see both those wires.

The connector that the tan wire is plugged into has a pink wire. So, the tan wire connects to pink. From there, the pink wire goes into the wire harness that is inside the trunk. The pink wire can be accessed at the big, flat, black harness connector that's in the left upper front corner of the trunk. So, that's 2 places you can test the sender wire, at the "tan-to-pink" connector under the filler neck, and inside the trunk, the pink wire at the harness connector.

The lights/wiper letters are white.

If you haven't thought of it, it's a good idea to change out all the old rubber fuel hose connections with new fuel hose at the tank and the front end of the fuel lines. The ethanol in the fuel damages the old original hose material, so it can eventually crack and leak. New fuel hose is ethanol resistant.

1 - Copy by grand73am, on Flickr

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  #56  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:18 AM
Aus78Formula Aus78Formula is offline
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Use brand name fuel hose on the tank and return lines. I installed new hose when I had my tank down and within a year had fuel leaking on top of the tank and on the side above an exhaust tip. Hose had dried out and cracked everywhere and no ethanol.

  #57  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:46 AM
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You guys are awesome for directing me to the correct wires.
Here is what I did to isolate the problem, I believe to be the sending unit in the tank.
As I mentioned earlier, I tested the range on the fuel gauge with an actual fuel sending unit I have from a 67 GTO and the gauge operated correctly through the full to empty range. I tested several times.
To test the wiring and sender in the car, I located the connections you directed me to where the ground wire for the sending unit is connected to the frame and unbolted that. It was very corroded so I cleaned it all up and reattached all. With ignition on - gauge went to beyond full. I then undid the connector with the pink wire in front of the fuel filler and connected that to the ground and the gauge went to empty which should tell me that the wire is good to the gauge. I then ran a ground wire from the battery back to the connection on the frame with the ground to the tank sender to insure I had a good ground - repeated all tests with the same results.
I don't know that it could be anything but the sender in the tank. This is surprising to me as the other day all was working great when I parked it. I added some sea foam and fuel system cleaner to the fuel and then the gauge was bad the next time I started it to run the cleaner through the fuel system.
It looks like I just need to undo the two straps to drop the tank. Any other pointers in addition to adding good fuel line
Thanks guys - the fuel gauge is important and a priority to repair.

  #58  
Old 05-20-2020, 08:02 AM
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First, spray those 2 strap bolts thoroughly with some PB Blaster penetrant and let soak a day or overnight, since they may be rusted. They screw into some clip nuts, which could break if you don't use the penetrant on them, and take it slow and easy when unscrewing the bolts. Siphon as much gas from the tank as you can using a piece of hose. Disconnect the sender wires from the frame, and the fuel line rubber hose connections. It should be ready to let down then.

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  #59  
Old 05-20-2020, 08:31 AM
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Nice ride. Gotta have a screamin chickin' That's all I got!

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Old 05-20-2020, 09:49 AM
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Also if you don't have some kind of siphon tool, pump, etc., here's a neat way to siphon. Get a length of suitable hose, cut a small slit in the end, put the other end in the tank, stick an air gun in the slit, and blow out toward the end. That will get the siphoning action started. Beats trying to suck on the hose to get it started.

187-8749_IMG by grand73am, on Flickr

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