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Old 11-29-2022, 10:06 PM
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Default What do you recommend for EFI on my 79 Trans Am

Hello guys,

I need help with a do it or dont do it on the EFI- and what system would you recommend on my 79 403.

I purchased the car with the 403 that has had some engine work done on it and I was told it had an aftermarket "race" cam, whatever that means. The engine runs strong but I dont know the specs on the cam. It has an aggressive lobe at idle, so I assume it has a fairly healthy cam in it.

I purchased the car from the previous owner that had the engine built approx 10 years ago but it has very low miles on it. I had the stock heads redone, mainly because they had to be removed and checked as I had a blown head gasket on the passenger side. The head work was done by a local quality race shop.

The previous owner installed a Holley 750 double pumper that seems to be running rich. I dont even need a choke to keep running on a cold engine. It is leaking fuel near or around the accelerator pump in front. So I have to rebuild the carb. I have no idea if the current jetting is the problem or even what the jetting should be. I am thinking to just upgrade to EFI.

Intake is an Edelbrock Performer aluminum manifold.

Unfortunately, I dont know the internal specs on the 403 so I am not sure how to proceed with an EFI upgrade or even which system to purchase. The car has headers into dual exhaust to the rear (no H or X pipe). So I dont know if that changes anything on the EFI install or tuning.

I dont want to break the bank so I would like to get better performance and tuning with the least amount of investment.

I noticed Eastwood is currently selling the FiTech Go EFI 4 - 600 HP EFI System - Bright Aluminum Finish 30001 for about $870.00 from $1000.00. I am sure there is a reason why it is half the money.

What other upgrades need to be done that are not included in the EFI kits?

What are your recommendations?

I am shooting darts - so let me know your thoughts.

Thank you in advance for any input you can give.


Last edited by i4abuygto; 11-29-2022 at 10:18 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-29-2022, 10:44 PM
JLMounce JLMounce is offline
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I’ve run a 30001 for about 30k miles with good results. It or the Snipers would be decently suited for your application.

There’s a couple things I would check and correct if applicable before you spent the money.

1. The electrical needs to be up to snuff. If you’ve got rats nest wiring, accessories that don’t work, low voltage etc, you need to fix that first. If the car’s electronics are bad, your experience with EFI will be as well.
2. Intake and exhaust leaks need to be sealed up. Any leaks on the intake or exhaust side mess with the system accuracy and causes a mound of problems.

If the above items are in good order, I’d jump right in to a throttle body injection setup.

My main recommendation with doing these is to not skimp on the fuel system. If you can afford the EFI, but skimp on the fuel system, your experience will typically be poor. That means from a budgeting standpoint, you also need to account for a new EFI ready fuel tank, in-tank fuel pump and fuel lines.

Don’t ever try to adapt stock parts into the fuel system, they are not designed for and are typically not sized properly for the application. I also recommend staying away from frame mount pumps and auxiliary reservoir systems.

The upfront cost with a good fuel system is marginally more than the bandaid systems, but well ahead of having to do it twice.

From an engine standpoint, the EFI doesn’t really know or care what’s inside. It makes its tuning and fueling decisions based on what you tell it to and its onboard sensors.

For the FiTech specifically it handles different cams based on a couple cam profiles that create a basic fuel map that then is modified by the short and long term learn trims. You choose these typically based on vacuum. if you have lots of idle vacuum, you choose place profile 1, if you have very little idle vacuum, cam profile 4. If you don’t know, profile 2 is the best place to start.

The Snipers are similar in their setup.

It’s not quite as cheap as buying just the EFI but in my opinion it becomes well worth it. Especially if you use the car in varying climates, altitudes etc.

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:52 PM
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I would not run EFI with a really heavy cam, especially TBI.

I would run one of these - heard nothing bad about them:



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08750vs

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Old 11-30-2022, 12:51 AM
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I've had good success with EFI and cams with as little as 8 in/hg at idle in gear. Not gonna say that's recommended, but it can be done. I doubt the Olds has THAT nasty a cam in it.

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Old 11-30-2022, 05:36 AM
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8in/hg? haha wish I had that much with my deal

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Old 11-30-2022, 07:15 AM
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Both throttle body efi's here with both engines making about 6 inches of vacuum in gear. I've been very happy with the systems on both cars.

If you take the EFI plunge JLMounce pretty much summed it up with solid advice.

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Old 11-30-2022, 10:54 AM
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Previous cam in my engine before I redid the top end, only made 9" of vacuum at my altitude with the FiTech. It didn't care.

I can't speak to the Sniper, but I know the FiTech's are generally fine with a cam that makes down to about 5" of vacuum. There are people that have made them work with vacuum signals as low as about 2". Once you get to that point with them however, you should be looking at something like an FT600...or yes a well dialed in carburetor.

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Old 11-30-2022, 11:25 AM
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If you take advantage of the timing control, low vacuum becomes "almost" completely inconsequential. I had to deal with no timing control when I first started with the early FAST EZEFI. That was more challenging. Now, having individual cylinder control, and timing of the injection event, it's a cake walk. You can even get rid of "some" of the exhaust smell associated with higher overlap camshafts.

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Old 11-30-2022, 03:09 PM
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I would just echo what some others have said and say make plans to take advantage of some of the systems that come with the EFI system. Most notably timing control. Its not that it wont work if you dont use those things, just that you are giving up a big perk of the system.

Its a lot of work and money to prep your fuel system and install the FI system when for about 3-500 you could just install a better carb and have a similar result.

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Old 11-30-2022, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
...Its a lot of work and money to prep your fuel system and install the FI system when for about 3-500 you could just install a better carb and have a similar result.
That was essentially my main point here.

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Old 11-30-2022, 07:46 PM
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I've been struggling to get a FAST EZ EFI 2.0 up and running for about a month now, and based on this experience, I wouldn't recommend this particular product. I bought the system in 2016 but it sat on the shelf until my '70 Formula project was ready--car took a lot longer than I thought it would. Now, the car will start-up and run just fine. The problem is that I can't make it through the set-up without the ECU shutting down/rebooting, so can't adjust things like the IAC, timing, etc. Spent 2-3 weeks moving the ECU around, re-wiring, re-routing wires, etc., but nothing worked. FAST tech support couldn't figure it out either. So the ECU, throttle body, and harness went back to FAST to get tested. I was told everything checks out fine and that the problem has to be elsewhere in the car--most likely interferences from some other system and they had no further suggestions. When I have some time I'll reinstall and to try to isolate the issue, but not many possibilities left before I have to start replacing parts. Though, at that point, I may move on to another EFI system. Most of the guys I know here locally with similar cars seem to use Holley EFI products, and although they run into snags from time to time, nothing like the issues I'm having.

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Old 11-30-2022, 09:57 PM
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Been a long time since I messed with FAST EFI throttle body back when I installed one on a 57 T-bird for a guy. Probably 7-8 years ago now. I don't know if those systems have changed or been updated in any way since then but I'd suspect they have like most electronics. No problems with it so I don't have much to offer in that regard other than it maybe sounds like some sort of RFI issue.

I've been playing with Holley EFI since. The rare occasion I've heard of your scenario happening with Holley it's been the pink key on power supply wire receiving too low of voltage causing the system to reboot. Usually when plugged into a fuse box or something of that sort. The cure is usually finding a better key on power supply source or triggering it through a relay.

You've probably been through that already so doubt this is your issue.

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Old 12-01-2022, 02:28 AM
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I appreciate all of the input and advice.
What components in the fuel system will need to be changed to accommodate the EFI to do it right?
What other complete list of components will i need to purchase that dont come in the kit?
Maybe just rebuilding the Holley 750 or a carb upgrade is the way to go.

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Old 12-01-2022, 07:24 AM
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The fuel system is best when done like JLMounce mentioned.

A good in tank fuel system.
I use Tanks Inc on my swaps with a walbro pump in the tank, and even use that setup for more serious carbureted builds for solid clean no nonsense fuel supply.

I also typically run 1/2" fuel line to and from with same size return. Fuel pump size is dictated by HP output.

All said and done I generally spend about $1000. It's one of those expenses these EFI systems don't mention. In my case I run these type fuel systems on carbs if they make decent HP so when I switched those 2 cars over to EFI the fuel system was already there.

Adds up though if diving into EFI all at once but it's the best way to do a high output fuel system with quiet running and oem type reliability.

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Old 12-01-2022, 07:33 AM
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One thing you can do is the do the fuel system first because it can function with a carb as well.

I did a fuel injection tank from tanks inc. Baffled tank with an in tank pump. Massive improvement over the stock tank. Used a combination of 1/2 hardline and soft line as connections in between in conjunction with a return style regulator from Robb MC which knocked the pressure down to appropriate for a carb. I ran that setup for a couple of years with a carb before I decided to take the full Efi Plunge.

Prior to that I had been dealing with fuel starvation at the track so it was a notable upgrade even without the EFI.

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Old 12-01-2022, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
One thing you can do is the do the fuel system first because it can function with a carb as well.

I did a fuel injection tank from tanks inc. Baffled tank with an in tank pump. Massive improvement over the stock tank. Used a combination of 1/2 hardline and soft line as connections in between in conjunction with a return style regulator from Robb MC which knocked the pressure down to appropriate for a carb. I ran that setup for a couple of years with a carb before I decided to take the full Efi Plunge.

Prior to that I had been dealing with fuel starvation at the track so it was a notable upgrade even without the EFI.
Yes, I did that for the last 8-10 years with a carb, I think on dad's GTO even longer with a carb. It's the best way to do a reliable fuel system that supplies enough fuel on anything that makes decent horsepower.

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Old 12-01-2022, 11:14 AM
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Here's the fuel system components I would recommend for you.

Fuel tank from Tanks Inc.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd446.htm

GPA-4 in-tank fuel pump. This is the tried and true Walbro 255, it'll support about 630 hp on a normally aspirated, gasoline engine.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd227.htm

Fuel lines, fittings and filter.
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd548.htm

You can opt not to go for the soft fuel line if you prefer hard lines. I will say that I've had EFI rated soft line under my car since 2015 and about 30,000 miles of operation. It's still in great condition. Yes it will need replacing at some point before a hard line would need replacing, but I wouldn't be afraid of it either. It's a good bit easier to work than hard line.

The fuel line kit above would be designed to utilize the FiTech or Sniper internal regulator. If you prefer an external regulator, or want to start with your fuel system now, they do offer a kit with a bypass regulator designed to work with carbs. Then, when you do the EFI unit itself, change the spring in the bypass regulator to get your pressure up to EFI required levels.

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Old 12-01-2022, 01:51 PM
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If you decide to go soft line I would just go spendy on it. I bought the cheapest NHRA spec -8 line I could and had notably more fuel smell around the car afterwards when I had the carb setup. I would spend a bit more and get something that is PFTE lined if I were to do it again.

When I installed my Terminator kit I used a pressure regulator mounted back near the tank so I didnt have to run two lines the full length of the car.

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Old 12-01-2022, 03:25 PM
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JL Mounce is right on. I have installed 3 systems recently. Fitech and Term X Stealth 4500. Used pushlock on non drag car. 4 years now no issue at all. Just make sure lines are well braced and not rubbing on harsh seams. Anything drag racing, PTFE is the way to go if you don't want hard line. I used all Fragola stuff including hose to match everything.

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Old 12-01-2022, 05:06 PM
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If you decide to go the route JLMounce mentioned, with an external regulator, and you want the option of switching from carb to EFI, the regulator I always use is the 13301 Aeromotive which is a return style.
It comes with both springs, setup for carb out of the box and the EFI spring comes with it to swap in later. So with this type of fuel system in place, going to EFI is as simple as swapping the spring in the regulator and you're done.

I prefer to mount these close to the EFI unit for most accurate pressure at the injectors (or carb) and run a full length return line, keeping the stagnant fuel line as short as possible. Or some run the fuel line in and out of the EFI unit, then install the regulator in the return on the way back to the tank. Couple ways of doing it.

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