[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Great luck on finding the Buildsheet !
You won't need to buy a PHS Invoice for the car.

Sold new to dealer
08-371 Weidner Pontiac Co. 760 Park Ave. Mansfield, OH 44906

You can decipher the codes with some good reading glasses.
In row #40 you have item #1
Row #43 you have items #2 and #4 (6)
Row #47 you have item #4
etc .....

Its upside down and gets blurry when I try to magnify it.

Axle code WF is 3.23 single-trac/peg-leg

Carb code JE will be stamped onto carb where the part number and date code are stamped - if it is still original carb.

[79 Phoenix]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Congrats on the buildsheet find!

I'm sure you'll get a decode of it, but a quick glance from me shows WR engine code which is 350 2bbl and 3.23 gear ratio.

Thanks John. I knew it had the 2 bbl 350 but was hoping for 3.55 gears... 3.23 not too bad though. My 79 Phoenix came from factory with 2.42 gears!

Also thanks for the gear ratio/tire size/RPM calculator you put out there. It has been helpful to me and many others over the years!

[79 Phoenix]

Attachment 608182Attachment 608180

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Great luck on finding the Buildsheet !
You won't need to buy a PHS Invoice for the car.

Sold new to dealer
08-371 Weidner Pontiac Co. 760 Park Ave. Mansfield, OH 44906

You can decipher the codes with some good reading glasses.
In row #40 you have item #1
Row #43 you have items #2 and #4 (6)
Row #47 you have item #4
etc .....

Its upside down and gets blurry when I try to magnify it.

Axle code WF is 3.23 single-trac/peg-leg

Carb code JE will be stamped onto carb where the part number and date code are stamped - if it is still original carb.

Thanks! I didn't realize it was upside down... Here's a right side up picture and bigger too. I was told it was bought new in Mansfield, OH... The original owner sold it to the guy I bought it from who sold it to me because he hadn't touched it in 4 years. So I will be the second driver. I was hoping for 3.55 gears but the 3.23's will suffice.

[79 Phoenix]

Since I am waiting for a few front brake parts before I install the shoes and drums, I moved to the back and removed the gas tank..Tank actually had about a gallon of old gas left in it after 30 yrs!. Underside of trunk looks good.

Looks like tank has 3 vents and just a gas line but no return line for gas. Is this correct?

[79 Phoenix]

My car has the original engine in it. It has 187,000 miles on it and I have no idea what condition it is in. It does turn over by hand. Probably rebuildable and also probably needs bored and new pistons, etc. I will need to invest considerable $$ into it.

I have an opportunity to buy another 1971 350 engine which is in good shape. Obviously not a matching number block and the heads are not the stock #94s.

QUESTION: If I use this other engine how much would it hurt the value of an otherwise numbers matching GT-37?

['ol Pinion head]

Here is my own .02. Have bought over a dozen GT-37's & a few T-37 hardtops since I was a 22 year old "kid". Also was the first to commercially reproduce the 3M reflective stripe for the 71 1/2's as well as reflective sword stripe '72 models. Last ran the GT-37 Survey in the late 80's & early 90's. The purpose of the GT-37 Survey was to uncover many details about these cars were actually built, & honestly, dispel a bunch of hype. Connected with a ton of GT-37 owners through those efforts.

Bottom line, concerning "numbers matching", about the only way anyone is going to appreciate an original Pontiac 350 2bbl engine equipped GT-37 is if the car is a time capsule cream puff! In info I compiled from the decades old completed GT-37 Surveys, there are numerous cars that were submitted with pics that were nice original lacquer paint, original interior, original drivetrain cars. A few were one family owned cars. Owners were proud of them & rightfully so. If someone were to stumble onto such a GT-37 today, the way the hype goes, the car needs to be unveiled. Then when done fluffing a lot of detail issues & thinking $$$$ signs, it's off to "Bring A Trailer". Several goofs on BAT, then will chime in that "only 50" 71 1/2's were built. That was, & is still is totally bogus! Much closer to half of the 5802 '71 & 71 1/2 GT-37's produced were built mid March through early July of '71 as 71 1/2 models.

Last, & am sure this opinion is shared with many other Pontiac faithful; replacing the well worn 350 Pontiac with a good 400 or 455 is next to a nobrainer. Wasting funds on another low compression small valve 350, whether its a 71 or later, not much to be gained there. Over the years I've had quite a few 400 YS 4bbls out of '71 GPs & Formulas, they are harder to find but not extremely hard to find. Whether built up as strong running '71 96 headed 400. Or building one up further w a stroker crank & street ported 96's, either are a good recommendation. A decent 455 buildup is also an option, though often a more expensive core to start with.

[kingbuzzo]

Build it for you, not the investment potential.

Put that original block in the corner...life is too short and get her on the road!

[unruhjonny]

I agree with these guys, but we also all have individual opinions.

If this was a halo car (RA, 455HO, SD455) then the numbers engine would be a much bigger factor, but lets be honest for a second;
A 350-2bbl car, wasn’t ever a hot rod, it was a grocery getter.

If you can get a P-350 that is in good to fair running shape for cheap, then do it.
Even better if you can put the original motor aside for a later date.

Good Pontiac 400’s and 455’s aren’t exactly falling out of trees these days, so even a substitute 350 should not be a strike against you.

I want to add, that I believe the P-350 is sorely under rated;
It’s a great engine, and for all the hype an Olds-W31 gets, you would think that a 350HO (aka: 350/4bbl) would get applause deserved… but it does not.
Even small valve engines can make great power.

I would advocate keeping your car as correct as possible if you are concerned about value.

Maybe at this time that means a completely different 350, but maybe in five to ten years, instead of rebuilding a replacement engine you (or the next owner?) might rebuild the car’s original block, and put it back in.

[SD455DJ]

Good points from unruhjonny and OPH and I do agree with all of them. I have an early version of the '71 GT-37 that is an original 455HO car, but the original block is already punched .060 over and the 197 heads have cracks in the seats, so I built a new (different) 455HO engine and replaced the original ailing M-13 3-speed trans with a BW-ST10 4-speed. The numbers block will always stay with the car. If I were in your shoes, I'd retire the original 350 under the work bench (keep it) and focus on a 400, or 400 stroker, build. I have a 400 stroker build in my '70 Lemans 4-dr sedan and it's a heck a lot more fun to drive than the 350 2-bbl. It's original 350 is "under the work bench" and don't miss it a bit. It will stay with the car when it moves down the road with a new owner. 400 engines are still out there and the best (& most affordable) platform to build on.

I wouldn't invest any money in either 350 engine unless it was a '68/'69 350HO, or as OPH said, it was a 'cream-puff' survivor car.

Your GT-37 is a great color combination from the factory and most folks won't care if the original 350 2-bbl isn't in the car. Most would prefer a non-original 400/455 that looks factory and it will add value in my opinion. I would upgrade the rear-end to a 12-bolt if you went the 400 stroker/455 route.

Dennis

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

...I want to add, that I believe the P-350 is sorely under rated;
It’s a great engine, and for all the hype an Olds-W31 gets, you would think that a 350HO (aka: 350/4bbl) would get applause deserved… but it does not...

The Olds 350 was a superior motor; short stroke, large bore that had more power and unless cammed like the W31 got better mileage too.

[unruhjonny]

/\ except the Olds motor made less power, and was only available in one platform.

I absolutely agree that it was a cool motor, and a real curve ball considering what Olds was doing at the time, but for all the press time the W-31 cars get, you would think that Tempest/Lemans/Firebird 350HO cars might get similar press time - but they do not.

[79 Phoenix]

Thanks to you all for sharing your knowledge and insights! VERY helpful in shedding light on my question... I'll let you know what happens.

[79 Phoenix]

Have been working in the back mostly in past week but have gotten new inner and outer wheel bearings with races and the front brakes on... Going to pick up a slightly modified 350 tomorrow.!

[79 Phoenix]

Went and picked up this engine today. The guy I bought it from purchased it from the second owner who had owned it since 1980 and had driven it very little. Engine came out of a 71 T-37 has 41,000 miles.
It is identical to the one in my car except it has 4bbl carb and Crane HMV 234 cam which I understand is a very mild cam.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE SPECS ON THIS CAM?

[79 Phoenix]

I might have gotten the numbers transposed. I think the ID is actually Crane HMV 243. Anyone know anything about this cam?

[unruhjonny]

if you assume that the number indicates advertised intake duration, as companies have done in the past, it’s probably a 243 duration cam

EDIT:

This might be a good link for starters:

Crane HMV cam

[79 Phoenix]

Thank you for the chart...I was going by what he told me about the cam--he wasn't sure of specifics. Attached is a picture of it but it also is not too clear.
I'm guessing this may be a new older cam that had been on someone's shelf---maybe from the 80's? I'm just trying to figure out what I've got. My heads are #94. He said performance with this cam was lack-luster.

['ol Pinion head]

Early '80's Crane split duration cam. Not that big. 243 would be advertised duration, .050 is going to be under 200.

35 years ago I had a Crane HMV 278 in a '70 GTO rescue. 400 auto/3.23, nothing special performance wise, needed more gear/ balanced w resized rods w new rod bolts. As i sold that GTO, it ran well for a putt- a-round driver project, but thankfully the fellow I sold that '70 to spent some $$$ on an engine build.

[79 Phoenix]

This cam was installed after the original factory cam lost a lobe because valves adjusted too tight...at least on one cylinder.

So the guy I bought it from put this cam in with new lifters, pushrods and valve springs (and 4 bbl) as a repair to get the car back on the road. I'm guessing, because this cam was available not necessarily for performance. His plan was to build a 400 anyway, so he just wanted to get this one running well.

I'm not looking for high performance from this 350 but would like it to run maybe a little better than stock. It has # 94 heads and a 625 cfm 4bbl carb. I'm thinking a cam that would give a slight boost in low to mid -range torque. Any suggestions or thoughts?

[79 Phoenix]

maybe something like this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15073018408...Bk9SR-yEpqLaYQ