2004 GTO AND ORIGINAL - Page 2 - PY Online Forums

68GTOConv · #21 12-13-2004, 09:52 AM

I couldn't care who designed the LS1 - It is the best small block engine to ever come out of GM. Think about it. My Formula could get a combined MPG of 23, after the supercharger install. On a completely stock engine, it held eight pounds of boost, making over 500hp - on 91 octane fuel. It passed CA smog II with flying colors, and started and idled like a grocery getter. Put the hammer down ... bye bye!

And it never needed the supercharger to outrun all the fabled musclecars from the 60's. It would do that off the showroom floor. I love seeing the old Hemi Cuda, Ram Air IV, and Mustang tests from back in the day ... bragging about the 14 second quarter miles (if they could hit that!). A person driving a manual for the first time could put an LS1 down the track in less time.

Thanks for posting the pics. I liked the side by side comparison. Evolution? Who cares. I've owned 69, 73, 80, and 93 Corvettes. The only thing consistent in all those years? The name, the manufacturer, and two seats. Everything else changed.

Change you like is evolution. Change you don't like is blasphemy.

Mike M

Nickv · #22 12-13-2004, 12:56 PM

Isn't it funny that every freaking thread turns into a new GTO bash. How pathetic.

Nice cars btw.

David Jones · #23 12-13-2004, 01:02 PM

Yeah Nick, really. Sad.
posted by mr_gto......
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>No evolutionary process there uh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

strangefrogg · #24 12-13-2004, 01:36 PM

Point 1 -- It's a different time, not 40 years ago. When I see the above pics, I do see a similarity; the 1964 car was a basic car (a Tempest) with a heart of gold and an Italian name (Gran Turismo Omologato), built it Canada, with what even at that time was a corporate GM motor.

The 2004 car is a basic-looking (very cool and subtle) two-door sedan, with one of GM's best powertrains. Sure, the assembly's done outside the US, just as the original's was, but it's a thoroughly American concept and has a lot of US parts.

Point 2 -- What about the merits of the car itself? Name be darned, if it was called a Pontiac or even Chevy Quasar or somesuch, would it not be just as cool a car? It's really unique in the market, especially for the money; a nice coupe with a good interior, lots of room, a REAL SUSPENSION (unlike the new Mustang), comfort, and plenty of power for around $30k is a good thing!!

And the reason a 2004 GTO is not as recognizable as a GTO, the way a 2005 Corvette is recognized as a Corvette...well...there just hasn't been a GTO in thirty years. Honestly, if the last Corvette built was the C2, would you instantly recognize the C6 as a Corvette? I'd much rather see a modern take on a theme than some cartoonish J Mays creation like the Ford GT.

red70goat · #25 12-13-2004, 01:53 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strange Frogg:

And the reason a 2004 GTO is not as recognizable as a GTO,(QUOTE]

...is because it looks like every other car in their fleet...The same thing happened in'74 with the Ventura....and it wasn't 30 years between the last distinctly recongnizable GT0: 1970. The 2004 GM Monaro cool and subtle? A 400 hp Pewter Metallic Silver C5 w/oak interior is cool and subtle. Bland and boring seesm to be the criteria down under. The design team at Beavis and LutzHead Inc. seem to think the answer lies in the outdated mode of adding hood scoops and spoilers.

red70goat · #26 12-13-2004, 02:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Isn't it funny that every freaking thread turns into a new GTO bash. How pathetic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Nick, I think a lot of the "bashers" on here, including myself, are not so much bashing anyones ride but are using this forum as a way to reach the powers @ GM to give us a GTO we really want. Hopefully GM is paying attention to the people here on the front lines and using these forums for improving their product.

Mr_GTO · #27 12-13-2004, 03:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
Yeah Nick, really. Sad.
posted by mr_gto......
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>No evolutionary process there uh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David, I know you are from Alabama but come on...

ev·o·lu·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lshn, v-)
n.
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.

The process of developing.
Gradual development.

Had the GTO forged on from 1974, chances are that is how it was going to look.

Mr_GTO · #28 12-13-2004, 03:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[
Actually Nick, I think a lot of the "bashers" on here, including myself, are not so much bashing anyones ride but are using this forum as a way to reach the powers @ GM to give us a GTO we really want. Hopefully GM is paying attention to the people here on the front lines and using these forums for improving their product. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, the last Firebirds were great cars for what they were. The Formula could be had for $25K. Did you buy one? I bought 2 last of the breed F-bodies. And FYI, the last CE TA was more money than the current GTO. You wouldn't buy one even if they satisfied all your wants. And they have improved their product. The GTO is MILES ahead of the last F-body, which was also built outside the United States FYI.

David Jones · #29 12-13-2004, 03:17 PM

I fully aware of the definition of the word. I'm glad you looked it up though so you'd know. So you're saying that had Pontiac soldiered on with the GTO from 1974 straight on through to today that they would have ended up with the Monaro based "new" GTO. Where did you come up with that? Crystal ball maybe? Since everything you "know" is based on facts gleaned from mindless trolling on the internet and nothing else, maybe you found a website that handles this type of speculation?
My reply was to Nickv's post about how these threads always end up bashing the "new" GTO. I simply wanted him to realize how this thread headed off in that direction. I wouldn't expect you to realize that though.

Mr_GTO · #30 12-13-2004, 03:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
I fully aware of the definition of the word. I'm glad you looked it up though so you'd know. So you're saying that had Pontiac soldiered on with the GTO from 1974 straight on through to today that they would have ended up with the Monaro based "new" GTO. Where did you come up with that? Crystal ball maybe? Since everything you "know" is based on facts gleaned from mindless trolling on the internet and nothing else, maybe you found a website that handles this type of speculation?
My reply was to Nickv's post about how these threads always end up bashing the "new" GTO. I simply wanted him to realize how this thread headed off in that direction. I wouldn't expect you to realize that though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Crystal ball? Hardly, more like all I have to do is look at the rest of today's pontiac lineup. I know it is tough for you folks from Alabama to figure out....go look at a 74 Grand Prix and look at the way it looks now. Evolutionary? You tell me, see if you can figure that out.

David, if you feel the need to bash the car in this forum, be prepaired to hear it from me.

Nickv · #31 12-13-2004, 03:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Strange Frogg:
Point 1 -- It's a different time, not 40 years ago. When I see the above pics, I do see a similarity; the 1964 car was a basic car (a Tempest) with a heart of gold and an Italian name (Gran Turismo Omologato), built it Canada, with what even at that time was a corporate GM motor.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Built in Canada? Where do you get your information? No 64 GTO was ever built in Canada.

The 64 GTO's were assembled in 4 different plants in the US.

Baltimore, MD
Freemont, CA
Kansas City, MO
or
Pontiac, Mi.

As a matter of fact the only year that any GTO was built in Canada that I'm aware of is the 1970 GTO.

FWIW: They're were not what we would call "corporate engines" back in 64, or for that matter throughout the 60's and early 70's from GM. Each division was unique, and each division built it's own unique engines, at least the V8's were. During the latter part of the 70's and into the early 80's is when the idea of "corporate engines" started to play a bigger role among the GM division. It seems that Chevy won out.

Your history is a little off.

red70goat · #32 12-13-2004, 05:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[
Actually Nick, I think a lot of the "bashers" on here, including myself, are not so much bashing anyones ride but are using this forum as a way to reach the powers @ GM to give us a GTO we really want. Hopefully GM is paying attention to the people here on the front lines and using these forums for improving their product. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

" The Formula could be had for $25K. Did you buy one?"

>>>Nope. Drove my 70 until it got to 278,000 and then bought a 94 740i followed by a 98 convertible C5....still have the 70.

"You wouldn't buy one even if they satisfied all your wants."

>>> Actually I had been hoping to trade my high mileage 740i in on the GTO in 2004. It never showed.

"And they have improved their product. The GTO is MILES ahead of the last F-body," <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>>Given that they've had 30 years to bring back the GTO I should hope so.

Mr_GTO · #33 12-13-2004, 05:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

" The Formula could be had for $25K. Did you buy one?"

>>>Nope. Drove my 70 until it got to 278,000 and then bought a 94 740i followed by a 98 convertible C5....still have the 70.

"You wouldn't buy one even if they satisfied all your wants."

>>> Actually I had been hoping to trade my high mileage 740i in on the GTO in 2004. It never showed.

"And they have improved their product. The GTO is MILES ahead of the last F-body,"

>>>Given that they've had 30 years to bring back the GTO I should hope so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, I was talking about the improvement from the 2002 Firebird to the 2004 GTO. Try to keep up.

red70goat · #34 12-13-2004, 05:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

" The Formula could be had for $25K. Did you buy one?"

>>>Nope. Drove my 70 until it got to 278,000 and then bought a 94 740i followed by a 98 convertible C5....still have the 70.

"You wouldn't buy one even if they satisfied all your wants."

>>> Actually I had been hoping to trade my high mileage 740i in on the GTO in 2004. It never showed.

"And they have improved their product. The GTO is MILES ahead of the last F-body,"

>>>Given that they've had 30 years to bring back the GTO I should hope so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, I was talking about the improvement from the 2002 Firebird to the 2004 GTO. Try to keep up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody cares about your 2002 Firebird.

Mr_GTO · #35 12-13-2004, 06:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Nobody cares about your 2002 Firebird. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I owned a 99 Trans am and a 2001 Z28 Vert.

And who said I ever owned a 2002 Firebird? I was comparing the build quality of the LAST GENERATION F-BODIES to the new GTO.

Again, try to keep up.

The Champ · #36 12-13-2004, 06:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
the last distinctly recongnizable GT0: 1970. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't believe the number of times you posted this same drivel...

Just because you own a '70, that makes it the last "distinctly recognizable GTO"???

Well here's a '70:

And a '71:

And a '72:

Now except for slight changes on the hood and front end, these cars bodies are virtually identical.

I would think that even a person who obviously knows very little about cars would even be able to see that.

red70goat · #37 12-13-2004, 07:02 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Champ:

these cars bodies are virtually identical.(QUOTE]

>>> Grand Am / Bonneville / Grand Prix / GM Monaro.

red70goat · #38 12-13-2004, 07:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Nobody cares about your 2002 Firebird. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I owned a 99 Trans am and a 2001 Z28 Vert.

And who said I ever owned a 2002 Firebird? I was comparing the build quality of the LAST GENERATION F-BODIES to the new GTO.

Again, try to keep up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exscuse me. Nobody cares about your last generation f-bodies.

70455RA · #39 12-14-2004, 12:58 AM

Can anyone on here stick to a topic. A guy posts a picture of a 64 and a 04 gto and you guys are off talking about corvettes,trans ams and small block chevrolets. I'm starting to realize why I sold my 70. If I keep reading on here I'll end up selling my SJ also.
Anyway beautiful 64 and even the 04 looks pretty good from that angle.

Trace · #40 12-14-2004, 03:10 AM

You know, this forum is sometimes painfully reminiscent of standing in an autoshop class in highschool. "Mine's better'n yours...oh yeah, well if you weren't such a butthead...blah blah blah". Gee, guys,.. uh...when someone starts a thread does it always have to degenerate into who can get in the last zinger?

I just got back from another cruise in Napa Valley (almost 500 mi on my Impulse Blue Holden Heart Throb - day 2) & I for one just wanna kiss the Lutzmeister for having brought me this wonderful machine! Mine's exactly like John B's friend's ride ('cept she's in my garage :-), though soon the dressing will begin.

It would be fascinating to worm hole through time the guys who created that beautiful '64 original of John's - bring them to the here & now to try out the GM Holden division's interpretation of a GTO. I bet they'd like it a bunch, though they'd probably want to slather on a little more chrome! They'd be utterly shocked by the driving experience, but feel a twinge of pride that the original idea (large V-8 - RWD - compact car - reasonable price) began with them.