#61  
Old 05-09-2022, 07:09 PM
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Mr_GTO Mr_GTO is offline
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Water pump have a cast impeller? All the correct plates are with the water pump? There is a great thread in the Cooling Section of this page. Have you read through those replies?

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Old 05-09-2022, 08:28 PM
alanmay0 alanmay0 is offline
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I'm not using the cast iron water pump. I do have the two plates and they are installed correctly. I can't seem to find much when I search "cooling problems". thanks

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Old 05-09-2022, 08:39 PM
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Well, did you bring your timing up to 12?


Did you check your head bolts?


These things might not fix it but they don`t cost money.

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:01 PM
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I had one brought to me heating on occasion...owner tried everything.
Recent rebuild on a 4.181 bore 428 with 6x heads purchased somewhere.
I decided to pull the heads and found a soft plug in the water passage at the front of the head on one side...opps. Runs a lot cooler with that head flowing water now.
Also upgraded to 17 inch core support and the ac radiator with stock shroud and clutch fan and an edelbrock pump. Cam is on 109 center and 32 total...runs 180 all day long

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:08 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Is it possible the electric fans are wired to spin in reverse?

Not sure that would cause the extreme overheating but surely wouldn't help.

Check to be sure they are pulling air thru the radiator, not trying to push air out of the engine bay thru the radiator.

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:15 PM
alanmay0 alanmay0 is offline
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Yes I did check the torque on all head bolts. I did move timing. I did a compression check on all cylinders all 145-150. Did the test for exhaust gasses in the radiator, could not turn blue stuff yellow. Water flowing good. Seems like too much heat in water for radiator and fans to remove any of it. Temp at thermostat housing and then at the spot where the lower radiator hose attaches to the water pump not much temp change at all. I'm stumped

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:17 PM
alanmay0 alanmay0 is offline
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they are wired correctly they are pulling lots of hot air that is for sure. remember I removed them and put the 7 blade clutch fan on and still temp climbed to 250.

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:18 PM
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180 must be nice

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:22 PM
alanmay0 alanmay0 is offline
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you are correct the temp only gets to about 109 with the cap off. my mistake

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:24 PM
alanmay0 alanmay0 is offline
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what temp would you be looking for at the rear exhaust ports to determine if things were ok?

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:25 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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And ditto advancing the ignition timing. 6 deg BTDC may have been the factory spec. It was in '64, my mostly stock rebuilt 389 that runs very cool. But the engine also required leaded premium when new. Gas that is unobtainium today, the lead helped with anti-knock allowing more compression and retarded timing that meant more power output.

So increase the timing but not so much that you induce detonation. Advanced timing without induced detonation will help lower the temp.

I haven't checked my own ignition timing (it is on my to-do list) but I am fairly certain it is advanced beyond the factory 6 deg spec.

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Old 05-09-2022, 09:30 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmay0 View Post
you are correct the temp only gets to about 109 with the cap off. my mistake
I'm not sure I understand this post. Temp is 109 where?

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Old 05-09-2022, 11:53 PM
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At the thermostat housing on the intake manifold while the engine was running with the radiator cap off. This is as hot as it got with the cap off.

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Old 05-10-2022, 12:43 AM
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It’s pretty common to get air trapped in the coolant system when an engine is removed, overhauled and put back in service. Simply adding water while the engine is running with the radiator cap off does not always clear trapped air. In fact most of the time it doesn’t.

Air pockets can cause hot spots and impede coolant flow resulting in overheating.

The most reliable way to refill a newly overhauled engine is to “burp” it with a coolant filled container inserted into the open radiator cap. Fill the radiator as best you can (cold engine) and start the engine. Turn the heater on with the engine running and use a burp can to clear the cooling system of trapped air.

I use this one.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A2CQSU6...n_0_title&th=1

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  #75  
Old 05-10-2022, 12:51 AM
LPete LPete is offline
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It looks like you’re ready to pull the head off? I’d urge you to do a leakdown test before you do that. You’ll see bubbles in the coolant if the gasket is leaking (or the head is cracked). If you don’t see combustion gases in the coolant I doubt if it’s the head gasket. That’s a lot of work for nothing if it’s not the problem. What will you do if you get it apart and don’t see anything wrong? BTDT.

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  #76  
Old 05-11-2022, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmay0 View Post
So Should I use the seals or not. Has anyone else ran into similar problems with over heating and can anyone have any other suggestions for me to try.
alan
Those are not just rubber seals. The seals are supposed to be installed on tubes. If either (or both) the tubes or seals are not installed you will not have adequate coolant circulation and it will cause an overheating problem as you describe. Leaving the tubes and seals out are a common mistake with Pontiac engines.
Verify that they are in fact installed.

  #77  
Old 05-11-2022, 11:25 AM
tekuhn tekuhn is offline
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Without the seals, the water that is pushed into the block can leak around the plate and it just goes in circles inside the pump cavity. Absolutely install the seals and make sure the plates are seating firmly against them. Then make sure the plate is as close to the impellor as possible without rubbing.

The thermostat sets the minimum temperature and has nothing to do with maximum temp unless it's not opening properly.

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  #78  
Old 05-11-2022, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmay0 View Post
I'm not using the cast iron water pump. I do have the two plates and they are installed correctly. I can't seem to find much when I search "cooling problems". thanks
You're not looking hard enough then. There is an entire section on heating and cooling.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=411256

and I didn't mention cast iron water pump, I said cast iron impeller.

  #79  
Old 05-11-2022, 11:27 AM
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His 1968 and earlier timing cover/ pump set up does not use those tubes or seals that folks are posting about , so let's stop confusing the guy!

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  #80  
Old 05-11-2022, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
His 1968 and earlier timing cover/ pump set up does not use those tubes or seals that folks are posting about , so let's stop confusing the guy!
Good point. Im not trying to be argumentative. His state's he has a '67 GTO. Has the actual year of the engine been verified? It is a 55 year old vehicle. Lord knows what these cars have been through. Just saying and thanks for your input.

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