[General Z]

Car is a 67 Firebird. I put in a Camaro console, with autometer gauges and a 69 Camaro shifter(I always thought they were cool and the Firebird was free) For the gauge lights, I tapped into the console light wiring.

The other day, I noticed that when I step on the brakes, the console gauge and prndl lights turn on at about half power. Then, for the heck of it, I turned on the turn signals. When the left turn signal is on, it makes the console gauge lights and prndl lights blink at about half power.

I also went to the back of the car and discovered that when the left turn signal lights are on, the right side lights blink at about half power. The right side turn signal seems to work fine.

The front parking lights are all rotted out and need replacement, so I can't confirm anything with them.

Anyone else ever had a similar issue? It is pretty weird in my book for these other lights to be turning on at about half power.

Thanks

[george kujanski]

Without actually drawing out the circuit, I'd say the problem is using the console circuit. This circuit usually gets grounded thru the door switches or lite switch. Wiring into this circuit, your gauge lites are internally grounded to the gage metal or mount, putting an unintended ground connection into the courtesy light circuit and making wierd things happen. You may also have a bad ground from the dash to the firewall. which gets improved when you tighten up the linkage on the brake pedal by stepping on the brake.

Use the dash lite circuit, or if you want the gauge lit all the time use the accessory circuit. Add a ground from the dash to the battery negative,also.

george

[General Z]

Thanks, I'll have to check that out, although, I think it may have done this before I installed the gauges as well. I ran a separate ground wire for the gauge lights.

[General Z]

The console lights that I tapped into for the gauge lights are the Prndl lights. Those should only come on when the headlights are turned on right? I don't think that they are tied to anythign else, although I'm not completely sure.

[george kujanski]

Ok, then, what circuit are the Camaro console PRNDL lights connected to? If it's the orange-wire circuit, that's the courtesy (dome) circuit.

George

[General Z]

I'm not sure. I'll have to check where they go. The lights I used for the prndl were the stock pontiac console lights, and stock wiring harness.

I figured that the stock prndl lights only came on when the headlights came on, so I was fine to tap into them for the console gauge lights.

Its weird that the right turn signal has no effect on the console / gauge lights, only the left turn signal and the brakes, and even then, they only come on at half power.

When I installed the gauge lights, I gave them their own ground, not using the prndl lights ground.

[MY1967gto]

Check your brake light ground. The brake lights and turn signals use the same element in the bulb and if the ground is bad it is searching for a ground and will go through the park lamp element in the bulb and cause your lights to come on dim.

[General Z]

Do you mean to check the ground back at the lights, or at the brake switch itself?

thanks

[General Z]

With the headlights turned on, the left turn signal won't work.

The right works fine.

However, with the headlights on, the driver taillights are much brighter than the passenger tail lights.

This also goes along with my problem of when I hit the brakes, or turn on the left turn signal, the console and prndl lights light up or blink respectively.

When I use the left turn signal, the right tail lights blink also, but at only about half power.

When using the right turn signal, the lights are nice and bright. If the headlights are on and the right turn signal is turned on, the turn signal lights are much brighter than the tail lights.

The hazard light switch doesn't seem to work.

The front parking / turn signal lights are all rotted out and I have new ones on order.

Any help?

I guess I could only make right turns, and not drive at night?

[LPete]

Take the rear bulbs out, one side at a time (I'd do the left first) and see what happens. Report back.

[george kujanski]

Since you admittedly have a lot of corrosion, you need to fix all that, insure the bulb grounds, firewall grounds, and tailpanel grounds are all good B4 doing anything else, as bad grounds will cause all kinds of wierd symptoms.

There is no ground for the stop light switch, just at the bulbs.

george

[General Z]

New front parking light housings, gaskets and lenses have been ordered from the sponsor.

Can the front lights being screwed up mess with the rear lights?

I guess that is what George is saying.

thanks

[General Z]

On a hunch, I cut the wires for the front parking lights, thinking that maybe they were shorting out. I cut all 4 wires. This made no difference with any of my symptoms.

[General Z]

Originally Posted by LPete

Take the rear bulbs out, one side at a time (I'd do the left first) and see what happens. Report back.

I pulled the sockets out one at a time, with the left turn signal blinking. As I pulled each socket out, the light went out, since it lost its ground.

However, when I got to the farthest light to the passenger side, it stayed on blinking, even though the socket was no long grounded. This light had 2 green wires which came together to feed into a white wire(apparently aftermarket sockets in the rear) It also had a third wire going to a black wire on the socket.

I thought it was odd that there was two green wires instead of one, so I cut the two green wires.

The light went out, but the lights on the console are still blinking at half power.

With the two green wires cut, I started putting sockets back in. Nothing has changed.

Isn't it weird that the one light is grounded even though the metal on the socket isn't grounded?

Any more ideas?

[george kujanski]

Well General, I've got to say you have one of the more unusual troubleshooting techniques I've seen.

If you have the left side blinking, playing with the bulbs on the right side would have no effect on the left, unless they share a common ground, but the diagram shows separate grounds for the right and left.

The two green wires: one brings power to one of the bulbs and the second one shares the power to the second bulb.

let me think about your various symptoms and see if I can come up with a better troubleshooting sequence.

George

[General Z]

The two green wires were really only 1 wire, that was then split to feed the two taillights. My mistake.

I am getting some weird volt readings though. When the left turn signal is on, the right turn signals are showing some low voltage, enough to blink, but not 12 volts.

I'm so confused.

[General Z]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Well General, I've got to say you have one of the more unusual troubleshooting techniques I've seen.

You don't like the cut method? This think is so hacked up and I'm getting so desperate, that it seems to be worth it, just to get it diagnosed, and then start puttin gthings back together.

The weird thing is the console lights, how they are somehow getting voltage from the brake and left turn signal lights. You think that is in the turn signal switch / wiring?

I really need to drop the column and get the gauge panel out of the way, so I can see the wiring mess back there. Someone had an alarm on this car at some point and has wires everywhere. I keep finding and removing stuff, but it is tedious.

Is that what you need to do to get to the back side of the dash gauges, is drop the column?

Thanks again guys.

[General Z]

I was also thinking I could test the ribbon wire harness from the turn signal switch. Check if there is continuity between the left and right turn signal wires.

Does the brake and or console wires go through here though?

Also, either the flasher switch is bad, the flasher is bad or there is somehitng with its wiring as well.......

Thanks again

[General Z]

I guess I can also check if there is voltage showing at the right turn signal wire when the left turn signal is on.

Also, it is weird that the tail lights on the right are dimmer than on the left, but the right turn signal is just as bright as the left.

[LPete]

I think it's time to take a different approach. Try taking a jumper wire and hooking power up to the left rear and right rear turn signal circuits at the harness connector to the turn signal switch (with the switch disconnected). This will simplify things and isolate the problem to before or after the turn signal switch. Make sense?