[arbys]

Just checked and I continuity on the blue and black/white wires from the alternator and regulator.

[arbys]

George Kujanski and others.

I put the battery tender on 1 1/2 days and the battery reads 12 1/2 volts. I started the car and went George's checklist:

Check the alt: unplug the connector from the regulator, with the engine running, take a wire jumper, connect it to the battery positive and the other end to the terminal in the regulator connector with the blue wire, the terminal should be labelled "F". The alt output should jump to about 16 volts if the alt and the blue wire connections are good. Obviously don't leave this jumper connected too long.

I read 13 1/2 volts and it went to almost 16 with motor revved.

[I]There should also be a brown wire in terminal position 4. That's the idiot light connection. With the key on, jump terminal 4 (brown wire) to ground, the idiot lite should be bright.[/I]

Yes, it's very bright.

[I]The wire on terminal 2 is normally a black with white stripe, and the wire on terminal 3 should be red or black with red stripe. Measure the voltage on terminal 3, it should always be battery voltage, key on or off.[/I]

Yes, it reads 12 1/2 volts term 3 to ground

[george kujanski]

Ok, then your wiring seems ok. If the voltage is going to 16 volts when revving, your regulator is not controlling the voltage.

1. the reg is bad
2. the reg is not grounded; make sure the reg body is grounded to the firewall and the firewall to the engine block with the braided ground straps.
3. you do not really have a battery connection to reg term 3.
4. The blue wire to the alt "F" terminal is not really connected to the regulator term "F", but instead somewhere where there is battery voltage.

Again, what is the idiot lite doing under all of these scenarios?? That was the original issue, correct?

George

[arbys]

George, thanks for responding.

The battery light is on until about 1200 RPM.

#1 The reg is newer but could be bad
#2 The reg is grounded and tested so with continuity.
#3 I have continuity from the battery Postitive post to term #3
#4 I have continuity from the F term to the to the #1 term on reg.

There is a capcitor or something attached to the reg. I"m not sure how this could be tested, it looks original and old. I've attached a couple of pictures.

[Dr. Drivability]

Originally Posted by arbys

George, thanks for responding.

The battery light is on until about 1200 RPM.

#1 The reg is newer but could be bad
#2 The reg is grounded and tested so with continuity.
#3 I have continuity from the battery Postitive post to term #3
#4 I have continuity from the F term to the to the #1 term on reg.

There is a capcitor or something attached to the reg. I"m not sure how this could be tested, it looks original and old. I've attached a couple of pictures.

That's just for radio noise supression so you don't hear the alternator through your speakers.

[PLAY400]

George the table on this page states that the 10DN 63A externally regulated alternator only puts out 8-10A at 750rpm. Maximum amperage is achieved at 2400 to 2500 rpm. Was trying to find a better graph or table but was unlucky. There are high output alternator out there that cut in earlier with much higher amperage. Like I said I fighting this problem with 2 cars that have a high electrical load at idle. Even with a 7" crank pulley I only make enough power at idle to keep the voltage at 12.7. If I drop the fans it comes up to 14+. 100 si12

Make sense to you?

[george kujanski]

Yes, it does, but Arby's indicated that there were no high loads at idle, If I remember correctly.

The idiot lite should go out if the alt is charging at all, and here's the reason: on the ext reg designs, key on, engine stopped, the idiot lite current goes thru the lite (bulb goes on) to the reg, goes thru the reg to the alt field, completing the circuit, providing a magnetic field in the rotor, and keeping the lite on.

Once the engine runs and the alt starts to produce output voltage, the "R" alt terminal goes to the reg term 2, pulling in the idiot lite relay inside the reg. The idiot lite relay then disconnects the idiot lite from the alt field and instead connects battery voltage from reg term 3 to the voltage sensing relay and the brown wire (idiot lite). Since the idiot lite now has ignition circuit voltage on one side of the bulb and battery voltage from the reg on the other side, there is no net voltage on the bulb and the bulb goes off. The alt now gets field voltage from the battery thru the moving contacts on the voltage sensing relay.

SO, since Arby's alt is providing output voltage, and the "R" circuit is good, the idiot lite relay SHOULD have bulb off.

Q for Arby's: do you know if this is a original-type reg, i.e mechanical relays, or a newer replacement type, i.e. solid state?

Also, try this: see if you can remove the brown wire from the reg connector, and instead use a jumper to connect it to the reg or use 4 jumpers so you can connect/disconnect the brown.

With the engine running and output at 14V hopefully, you said the idiot lite is on. Remove the brown wire connection and see if the lite goes off. I suspect it will. Check the alt output voltage with the brown wire disconnected. I suspect the alt voltage will drop to battery voltage.

George

[arbys]

There is no load other than the engine. No radio,heater fan off, no lights.

I don't know if the reg has contacts or electronic but it is super light, not like the old heavy regs.The # stamped on the back is 4276M01 and the unit is sealed and can't be opened.

I pulled the wire back from the harness at the reg far enough that it didn't make contact and turned the key on, no light,started it and it read 12.2 volts.

[Dr. Drivability]

That regulator is solid state...ditch it, go to the parts store and get a o.e. style mechanical regulator and I'm willing to bet a large lunch at a drive-up window your issue will be solved.

[george kujanski]

I'll have to agree.. the reg is an unknown.. I've read where people with "A" bodies were sold reg that were for "B" bodies (no lite, they use ammeters), vice versa, or 'universal fit" regs for both and in some cases, operation was incorrect.

Go back to a known electro-mech replacement so we can establish a baseline.

P.S. there's no reason an electronic one wouldn't work if designed correctly....but we don't know about the one you have.

george

[arbys]

In checking online I notice that the parts houses do not list if the unit is solid state or mechanical. Is a good rule of thumb that if the unit is sealed it's solid state and if it has a removable cover it could be mechanical?

[Old Goat 67]

The mechanical regulators are much taller than what you show, because the relays need the height.

Try your local NAPA first, but make sure you can return it if needed first.

Charles

[arbys]

It won't hurt to run it like this til I get a new one in a week will it?

[george kujanski]

IF the charging voltage goes above 14.5 or so, you will start to overcharge the battery, which will use battery water, create an explosive mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gas in the vicinity of the battery.

If the voltage gets towards 16 volts, bulb life will suffer, etc.

If you have a voltmeter in the car, monitor the battery voltage and if it goes up, add some electrical loads such as headlites, etc. to try ans keep the voltage down. Conversely when you stop and idle, the voltage may drop below 12.6 so reduce the loads to keep the battery charged.

You will become the voltage regulator.

George

[Old Goat 67]

You will become the voltage regulator.

I love that one.

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

I love that one.

X2^^^^^

Old school thinking. Kinda like using panty hose for an emergency belt, and turning the heat on to cool the car a little more in the heat!!

[arbys]

I wasn't going to go in town for a few more days but I decided I didn't want to be "my own voltage regulator" LOL. I bought the mechanical voltage regulator that was 4-5 times heavier than the old one and 3 1/2 times more expensive than the solid state . It's made in the USA. Installed it and NO MORE BATTERY LIGHT AT IDLE. Thanks to George and others for walking me thru this.

[Old Goat 67]

WAHOO!

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by arbys

I wasn't going to go in town for a few more days but I decided I didn't want to be "my own voltage regulator" LOL.

How far away from "town" are you? Sounds like you take the horse into town..LOL!!!

Just busting. Glad that worked out!!!!

[arbys]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

How far away from "town" are you? Sounds like you take the horse into town..LOL!!!

Just busting. Glad that worked out!!!!

Two chickens and a squirrel from town.
No, I've had no SS increase since I started so I try to limit my trips. It's 25 miles round trip.