[b-man]

Originally Posted by fdowdy

As usual, your information is extremely helpful to me as a first-timer in a lot of this stuff. My '64 and I are really fortunate to have a mentor like you available to save the car from damage and me from more blood loss than is required.

(I usually bleed a little on my projects. It's kind of a stamp of completion.)

Thanks for the kind words friend.

I'm no '64 expert, but I have done quite a bit of work on the 3 that I own and have collected a lot of parts for them so I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the '64-only features.

The '64 Pontiac A-body is quite a unique car. The Tempest line had finally evolved into a car with a 'conventional' drivetrain and full-frame. It was the springboard for the now legendary GTO that quite arguably started the era of the American musclecar.

[Brad_bb]

I am planning to convert my 64 to discs, but not the setup you have(too rich for my blood). I have been researching power options. old_goat_67 installed a hydraboost on his 67. This apparently about doubles the line pressure, giving you superduper power where little pedal effort is required. The hydraboost is also very compact compared to a vacuum booster. It runs off of the power steering pump(with the power steering working too). I like the compactness, and the little pedal effort which I think would be good when my mother drives the 64. I'm also building a 62 Impala convert for her, so this research is applicable to that too as I want to make that very mom friendly(PS, PB, auto). I might even put a pontiac engine in the impala as it still has it's original 6 banger now.

Thanks for the info on the steering box. I do think that will be in the cards. I'm prepping my motor now for assembly. I'm hoping to finish the car for this summer.

[tempest455]

Ditto on the manual brakes. I installed 4 wheel, Wildwoods on my car using a stock GM, dual master. Car stops like awesome, brake and pedal feel, awesome.

[rolling money pits]

nice! i'm rather green with envy at the moment, or should i say RED with envy, since i'm so broke right now i can barely afford to pay attention...

did you toy with the idea of going with coilovers? if so, what was the reason(s) for not using them?

i have the same hawk pads on my daily driver, a 3200 lb bmw, and i like them a lot. no noise, no dust, and only an ever so slight "wooden" pedal feel to them. my car is power brakes, so yours having manual you'll probably have a bit more woody feel.

follow the bed in procedure TO THE LETTER. many have bed them wrong and been quite unhappy, so i've read....i was so anal about it that i never touched the brake pedal, unless it was for the initial bed; i used the clutch / engine to slow and or stop the car when rolling out the driveway. i may have run a stop sign or two as well.....

do not be surprised or alarmed if, after the bed in, you get pedal feedback like a rotor is warped or has excessive runout ( providing you checked/know the rotors dont have runout before hand ). mine pulsated a for about 50 to 100 miles of normal driving, gradually getting less and less noticable with each drive to the point it went away.

the hawks also have, as part of noise control, a slighty odd cut of the friction material. you might notice the outer edge ( 1/2" to an 1" ) of the rotors showing wear pattern like the pads arent in right, or not making contact. this is, or should be, normal.

going from factory organic pads to the ceramics i lost a LITTLE cold bite. and by a little i mean a little. however, after a stop or two theyre fine, and when fully warmed up they bite like crazy, like a steel jaw trap. they're also capable for some autoX-ing, but when pushed hard, especialy in a heavy car, they'll develop fade.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

nice! i'm rather green with envy at the moment, or should i say RED with envy, since i'm so broke right now i can barely afford to pay attention...

did you toy with the idea of going with coilovers? if so, what was the reason(s) for not using them?

i have the same hawk pads on my daily driver, a 3200 lb bmw, and i like them a lot. no noise, no dust, and only an ever so slight "wooden" pedal feel to them. my car is power brakes, so yours having manual you'll probably have a bit more woody feel.

follow the bed in procedure TO THE LETTER. many have bed them wrong and been quite unhappy, so i've read....i was so anal about it that i never touched the brake pedal, unless it was for the initial bed; i used the clutch / engine to slow and or stop the car when rolling out the driveway. i may have run a stop sign or two as well.....

do not be surprised or alarmed if, after the bed in, you get pedal feedback like a rotor is warped or has excessive runout ( providing you checked/know the rotors dont have runout before hand ). mine pulsated a for about 50 to 100 miles of normal driving, gradually getting less and less noticable with each drive to the point it went away.

the hawks also have, as part of noise control, a slighty odd cut of the friction material. you might notice the outer edge ( 1/2" to an 1" ) of the rotors showing wear pattern like the pads arent in right, or not making contact. this is, or should be, normal.

going from factory organic pads to the ceramics i lost a LITTLE cold bite. and by a little i mean a little. however, after a stop or two theyre fine, and when fully warmed up they bite like crazy, like a steel jaw trap. they're also capable for some autoX-ing, but when pushed hard, especialy in a heavy car, they'll develop fade.

The thought of running coilovers never really crossed my mind. I just wanted to do some nice bolt-on upgrades, I guess any ride height adjustments that I might need to make can be taken care of using the front spring shims and trimming the rear coils down to suit.

The Tempest will never see any track time, so I really have no need to make any quick ride height or shock valving adjustments.

Thanks you for the brake pad bedding info. I have read some of the procedures from different sources, but before I do the bedding I'll call Tobin at KORE3 to see what he says since he was the one who sold me the Z06 brake package.

[KCTurbo]

Tobin has some good stuff. I went with the same setup on my 65 tempest. The maual brakes are pretty good on mine (same layout and parts). I didn't do the front susspension upgrades other than the Bilstine shocks. 1 1/4 bar up fron and a 1 in the rear. BIG difference in the way the car handles and the brakes are awesome. You are going to be a happy man when you get it back out on the road. The brake pedal will feel pretty firm but will give you a lot of control, not like power brakes.

[john31s]

Hi i was just reading some info on brake conversions and i came across this; "reinforced stock lower A-arms and Hotchkis upper control arms with greasable poly bushings." And my question b-man is what do you mean by "reinforced" lower a-arms. How are they compaired to the stock a-arms. Thanks alot for the help.
John

[b-man]

John,

I welded 3/16" thick steel plates near the bottom of the stock lower A-arm arms right in the area of the two lower bushings. The plates were curved to match the profile of the arm in the bushing area before welding, these serve to stiffen the arms in this highly-stressed area. H-O Racing used to sell these plates, I just copied them.

Some folks will go even one step further and weld a plate onto the bottom of the A-arm, the plate will be profiled to match the most of the open bottom area of the A-arm.

Hope this helps.

Bart

[john31s]

Thanks alot

[weevilkenevil]

hi b man, the original setup you removed looks a lot like what im planning for my 65 gto,although id like to fit the adjustable upper arms that your fitting now,a few questions though ,the upper arms you remove appear to have a plate on them to serve as a upper bump stop, is this something you made ? the adjustable arms your fitting and most of the aftermarket upper upper arms ive seen dont appear to have any bump stop provisions ,are they relying on the shock absorber to be the top out limiter? did you refit the plate to your car with the spc adjustable upper arms ? and finally what alignment settings did you end up using? cheers Ian Page ,newcastle, australia

[b-man]

Hello Ian,

I did make the upper bumpstop plates myself, but I could have bought some for an extra $50 along with the Hotchkis arms when I ordered them. Have since sold the old suspension parts to a friend so the plates went with the old parts, am considering making some new ones because whenever I jack up the front of the car the upper control arms hit the frame.

No front end alignment specs to share, I'll probably consult with Mark at SC&C to see what he would do for settings when I get to that point in my project.

Bart

[weevilkenevil]

hmm, looks like ill have to ask spc if they can supply those plates too,how are you off for clearance on the inner fender when the suspension compresses ? i have 17/8 with 235 tyres on the front of mine and i can get rubbing from the tire on the inner guard, im hoping fixing the backward camber curve will fix this. also i dont know if you pulled the body off the frame with yours but im going to do it with mine ,given the opportunity would you bother fitting some of the convertible frame strengthening plates? seems like a simple job if ive got the body off and the frame is fairly flimsy as that point as witnessed by the ripples along my frame where its been jacked it up badly over the years, finally, tall ball joints ,upper and lower? or can i get away with just upper .sorry for the million questions ,i just like the path your taking with you build ,cheers!

[b-man]

I did not pull the body off the frame, but I did replace the old rubber body mounts with new urethane mounts. The body now sits about 1/4" lower on the frame with the new urethane mounts. If I did remove the body I would have taken the opportunity to box the frame like a convertible.

I can't really answer your tall ball joint question, I assume most users would only do the tall upper one. I would send an email to Mark at SC&C and see what he thinks.http://www.scandc.com/

[bignate]

Are those billet rear trailing arms as strong as a set of tubular steel ones? Just wondering if they'd be good for a drag race environment?

Thanks, Nate

[b-man]

Originally Posted by bignate

Are those billet rear trailing arms as strong as a set of tubular steel ones? Just wondering if they'd be good for a drag race environment?

Thanks, Nate

Nate,

I'm sure the solid aluminum control arms would be plenty strong enough for a drag car, thin sheetmetal stock control arms seem to do fine too. There are no welds to break on the billet arms, another factor to consider.

Bart

[bignate]

Bart,

Just wondering if you've gotten this one finished yet, or at least have you driven it yet? I've been toying around with doing the same suspension on my Judge. The all original front end is starting to get a little tired and loose. I'd like to be able to keep up with late model mustangs and camaros in the corners. But I'd use the 12" brake kit for the front because I won't give up my Klassics!

Thanks, Nate

[b-man]

Nate,

My Tempest project has been on hold for quite a while due to some serious family issues, but I definitely hope to get back into it and finish things up as soon as my situation improves.

Bart

[bignate]

Originally Posted by b-man

Nate,

My Tempest project has been on hold for quite a while due to some serious family issues, but I definitely hope to get back into it and finish things up as soon as my situation improves.

Bart

Well I'm sorry to hear that, I hope things improve for you soon. I know what it's like not being able to work on your projects like you want to, needless to say it ain't fun.

Nate

[GTObsessed]

Originally Posted by b-man

I'm really liking the contrast of the black wheels and the red Corvette Z06 calipers.

Wheels are 18X9" O.Z. Racing Ultraleggera weighing in at only 20.8 pounds each bare, tire sizes are 275/40-18 rear and 245/40-18 up front.

Bart,

Will that wheel size and combo fit a stock 64" I would like to do similar set up in the future. However, I don't have the budget for the suspension and brake upgrades right now. I see that you change the rear end. Is the new one shorter than the stock rear?

I need new tires and wheels. I like the sizes you have chosen and how the wheels fill up the wheel wells and eliminate the wheel gap. I would like to pick something that will allow the flexibility for the larger brakes and a future suspension upgrade.

Thank you,

[b-man]

Originally Posted by GTObsessed

Bart,

Will that wheel size and combo fit a stock 64" I would like to do similar set up in the future. However, I don't have the budget for the suspension and brake upgrades right now. I see that you change the rear end. Is the new one shorter than the stock rear?

I need new tires and wheels. I like the sizes you have chosen and how the wheels fill up the wheel wells and eliminate the wheel gap. I would like to pick something that will allow the flexibility for the larger brakes and a future suspension upgrade.

Thank you,

The rear end in my Tempest is a later A-body rear that is 1" wider overall (1/2" per side) compared to the original '64 rear. The thickness of the rear disc brake rotors at the hub also adds a little more width, about 3/16" per side. I would also prefer that my rear wheels (6.57" backspacing) had about 1/8" less backspacing, they're a little tight to the inside so I may use a 1/8" spacer later on.

You would need to use 18x9" rear wheels with 5.75" of backspacing on a stock '64.

Up front I can't really say since the ATS spindles may put the front wheels in a slightly different location compared to stock spindles. Your best bet would be to buy the rear wheels and try to fit one in the front and check your clearances before you decide on a final size and backspacing.

It's not easy to find wheels with the exact backspacing you need in the style you want. My wheels were spec'd for the rear of a BMW Z4 roadster. They just happened to have backspacing that was very close to what I needed in a style and color that I liked, I found them only after some diligent searching on the Tire Rack website. Of course I had to change the lug pattern on the rear axles to BMW 120mm from the stock 120.65mm (4.75") and use a spacer/adapter in the front, but it did allow me to use the exact same wheels front and rear and have a full-size spare as well.