[Mark1968]

I must know, what does the X stand for?

[tripower]

Originally Posted by Mark1968

I must know, what does the X stand for?

Keith can explain it better, but it is believed to be a pilot car for the production run. It does look like a very early production GTO.

[tripower]

Originally Posted by Karfever

I would really like to know what this car is worth in today's market.

I think it would be worth his opening bid and a lot more if his description was spot on. A 29K original mile GTO would bring some big bucks.

IMO, I think it's around a 20K car in this economy.

[gtomike1967]

Is the color really "RARE"?
It was owned by a "very fussy well-respected collector" but he didnt care that it has a non-chromed dash bezel and a non-original washer bottle etc? Doesnt sound too fussy to me.
Nice car though. No bids above the 24k starting price yet...

[BOB VIDAN]

Ron, on the "tacky" gauges, I meant the discoloration on the speedo, not the fact they are standard gauges.

[rexus31]

I appears to be a Pontiac Zone Car.

[John V.]

rexus31, why do you think it is a Zone car? I have reason to think it was an early straight Dealer Order build, but need to see the Billing History Card to confirm.

Keith is still collecting data on the "X" code but it may not be as interesting as once thought and it is almost certainly not anything to do with pre-production Pilot builds based on evidence collected so far.

But if you know it was not a Dealer Order build, that would be useful info. Is the Billing History Card available?

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by John V.

rexus31, why do you think it is a Zone car? I have reason to think it was an early straight Dealer Order build, but need to see the Billing History Card to confirm

Keith is still collecting data on the "X" code but it may not be as interesting as once thought and it is almost certainly not anything to do with pre-production Pilot builds based on evidence collected so far.

But if you know it was not a Dealer Order build, that would be useful info. Is the Billing History Card available?

I could be wrong but if you look at the Reproduction Window Sticker I believe on the Dealer Line it reads "Pontiac Motor Division, Little Rock, AR". I don't see a dealer name anywhere.

[John V.]

Well could be I guess. The Billing History Card should be conclusive.

I think it is more likely that the Owner who had it made could not figure out the name of the Dealer by the Dealer No. when he had the repro Window Sticker printed up so plugged in Pontiac Motor Div. instead of the Dealer Name where it was really delivered.

Keep in mind, Little Rock was served out of the Memphis, Tenn Zone and even if there was a Zone Storage facility in the Memphis Zone located in Little Rock, I cannot imagine how anybody would know it came from that location unless it was identified on an original Window Sticker which doesn't apparently exist. I could be wrong, but I think that Zone Stock inventory builds that were shipped to the Memphis Zone would have listed Memphis, Tenn as the delivery point on the original Window Sticker regardless where the Zone storage facility was physically located.

Then again, I wonder what the basis was for identifying Little Rock as the Delivery point unless somebody knew where it was originally sold. My gut says that the repro Window Sticker is not very accurate, which would be no surprise to me, repros generally leave a lot to be desired compared to the originals.

[zbuickman]

Originally Posted by Mark1968

I must know, what does the X stand for?

We had believed that it was for a Pilot buid car. However there are more turning up so, that is seeming less likely. Im begining to dought it, and right at this moment, its unclearThe one thing that is consistant is the EARLY build dates

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by John V.

Well could be I guess. The Billing History Card should be conclusive.

I think it is more likely that the Owner who had it made could not figure out the name of the Dealer by the Dealer No. when he had the repro Window Sticker printed up so plugged in Pontiac Motor Div. instead of the Dealer Name where it was really delivered.

Keep in mind, Little Rock was served out of the Memphis, Tenn Zone and even if there was a Zone Storage facility in the Memphis Zone located in Little Rock, I cannot imagine how anybody would know it came from that location unless it was identified on an original Window Sticker which doesn't apparently exist. I could be wrong, but I think that Zone Stock inventory builds that were shipped to the Memphis Zone would have listed Memphis, Tenn as the delivery point on the original Window Sticker regardless where the Zone storage facility was physically located.

Then again, I wonder what the basis was for identifying Little Rock as the Delivery point unless somebody knew where it was originally sold. My gut says that the repro Window Sticker is not very accurate, which would be no surprise to me, repros generally leave a lot to be desired compared to the originals.

Most all of the repro Window Stickers for the Pontiacs are now generated thru PHS (I say most because there is some guy on ebay who claims he will print you one with any options you like for $39.00. I've not seen one of those so I don't know how they look compared to the ones from Triple AAA) Triple AAA has been doing them for many years and now has a deal with PHS that they will not do any for Pontiacs unless you go thru PHS and have the correct options as delivered from the factory. I know that most of the ones that I have seen from PHS/Triple AAA have the sold from/delivered to Dealer's name printed on them. The one shown for this car does look like a repro from PHS/Triple AAA. I would deduce from that that either it was a zone car or they didn't have that info available.

Has anyone else gotten a window sticker from PHS that DIDN'T have the dealer's name printed on there?

[65 pile]

Pretty sure this is the same care I see listed in hemmings. They are asking $35,000 in the hemmings ad.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...to/806646.html

[zbuickman]

Thge problem is people watch BJ and see what cars are listed for on E rape. and think thats what they are worth. heres one they want $35 for, that I would rather have than the one in question now. non original engine 4 spd yada yada...not saying this one is worth it either....just way more appealing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318

Sorry Karfever I dont mean anything by this just that prices are over inflated...good luck on the sale

[Karfever]

Originally Posted by zbuickman

Thge problem is people watch BJ and see what cars are listed for on E rape. and think thats what they are worth. heres one they want $35 for, that I would rather have than the one in question now. non original engine 4 spd yada yada...not saying this one is worth it either....just way more appealing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318

Sorry Karfever I dont mean anything by this just that prices are over inflated...good luck on the sale

No problem, but I am trying to BUY not sell! Money is tight for me as it is for most of us, but I also figured if I am going to buy a nice 65 now would be the time. The 65 you mention in Canada would be a great deal for someone local, but trying to get the car/engine/wheels shipped into the states is probably more hassle than I would like, not to mention the costs etc.
One would think that you could buy a nice 65 for somewhere in the mid 20's, but it isnt happening right now.

[Dick Boneske]

Karfever used the right words when he said "pick it apart." Just my opinion, but I think this car is well worth $24k and will sell. The seller posted a lot of photos and provided a description meant to sell the car for as high a price as he could, just as any of us would do. If you're serious about buying it, you could be fairly certain about mileage by documentation the seller would or wouldn't have. He said Tripower was added to an original '65 GTO engine. Checking for #77 heads and getting the engine casting number would be a no-brainer if you're really concerned about originality. Having Rally I wheels, chrome exhaust tips and wood steering wheel is a plus--whether the car was built that way, or not. The only negative is the 2-speed automatic transmission and, ironically, it was built that way

As far as the washer bottle and dash bezel, any of us that bought these cars new know how quickly these things deteriorate--29k miles or not. If you like, you can paint the cowl tag and hood hinges to make them "correct."

I have a hard time understanding the dislike many car enthusiasts have for eBay. No other method of selling provides as large a market, as low cost for listing, or an easier way to describe any item you're trying to sell. There has NEVER been a tool for selling that can beat eBay in these important aspects.

Try it, you may like it!!!

[Karfever]

I like this one as well, a totally rust free phs four speed car. The downer, (not a huge issue to me) is NOM. It has a 67 400 in it now. PLEASE give me an idea as to value. The seller and I are apart a couple thousand right now.

[Dick Boneske]

Pretty hard to peg value with one picture. If it's straight and rust-free, with the engine not original (but a very desirable engine), you should be between $17 and 22K--higher if it's really nice.

[Karfever]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

Pretty hard to peg value with one picture. If it's straight and rust-free, with the engine not original (but a very desirable engine), you should be between $17 and 22K--higher if it's really nice.

Yes, very straight and strong car. Here is a interior photo.

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by Karfever

Yes, very straight and strong car. Here is a interior photo.

One thing that bothers me about this car is the steering wheel. With a very nice repro wood wheel available for around $500 or less, why gober it up with one of those $100 wheels? It just makes me wonder if they cut corners there where it is so obvious, where else did they cut corners?

[65 pile]

I feel I just totally got ripped off in Nov. but I still love the car. If you love the car then go for it. If you are looking for something you can sell in a year or so then I guess be all skeptical on it. But if you want something to burn the tires on and just have a blast driving and have people look at you a lot buy what you like. Cos like I said mind is good from 20 feet and I feel that I over paid for it but in the 2 times I have taken it on the road so far (cos I can't get it to pass inspections yet) the passengers have commented on how many people check out the car. And regardless I love the car and I don't plan on getting rid of it as long as I am alive so who cares about the value.!!! If you like it and want a driver then go for what looks right. I don't know. All I do know is that I saw the same car in hemmings for $35k and I am just about sure you will not get it for anywhere in the $20's based on that price. But if you like it and it looks good go for it.

P.S. I think that is just a bad flash on the chrome plating that goes around the gauges, I am positive that under the wrong lighting conditions that they will look like crap. You might get the person to send you some other pictures of that!!

This is just all my opinion. I have been wrong in the past. Obviously I bought a total 65 pile as far as I am concerned.

Rob