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Coach · 09-15-2005, 09:02 AM

I could really use a little help. I purchased my car as a "basket case" and it came with what was supposed to be a newly rebuilt alternator, I had to buy a new wiring harness (complete), and installed a voltage requlator.

Attached are two pictures, the first is the voltage requlator, as you can see I have a blue wire and a grey with white tracer wire. The second picture is the alternator, you can see the blue wire attached to the lower terminal. The unit is not charging and I was hoping someone here could review and tell me how to know if the unit is wired correctly or not.

My little Owatonna Tool Company test meter tells me "Not Chrging / Regulator / Field Open"

So, what do you folks think?
-harry

george kujanski · 09-15-2005, 11:10 AM

When the ignition switch is on, the wire with the white stripe should have battery voltage from the ignition switch. The blue wire from the regulator should be connected to the alternator "F" terminal, and your pic shows a blue wire ther, I assume it is the same wire.

Yank the blue wire out from the alt, and with the engine running, jump the "F" terminal to the battery; the alternator output voltage should jump to around 16 volts or so since you are "full fielding" the alt. I fit does that, the alt is good.

So if the alt is good, either the white stripe wire from the ignition switch is faulty, or the reg is bad, or the regulator ground to the firewall and/or the firewall to engine block-to- bat neg is poor.

Those are your possibilities.

george

Coach · 09-15-2005, 02:22 PM

Thanks George,

That is the kind of info I need. I will check it all out tonight and let you know what I find.

-harry

engineer · 09-15-2005, 03:15 PM

why don' people clock alternators when they get replaced??

george kujanski · 09-15-2005, 03:36 PM

Good point, engineer..

Hey coach, if you pull the alternator off, Change the rear housing position so the connections don't interfere with the other stuff.

To do: remove the 4 thru bolts, and WITHOUT SEPARATING THE HOUSINGS, turn the front housing relative to the rear housing to the new position. Keep the stator, (the iron laminated piece in the center) with the rear housing when you turn. Replace the thru bolts.

George

Coach · 09-15-2005, 05:58 PM

Ok guys, point well taken on the alignment and I will do as instructed. But here is where I'm at with the testing. Rang out blue wire, goes from regulator to alternator. Key on, get 12 volts to the grey and white wire at regulator. Ground from regulator to battery ground .01 ohms resistance. Perform jumper from battery to field test as instructed above, alternator charges at about 15 volts.

At this point I decided to replace the solid state regulator with a delco unit that came with the car, I hooked it up, turned on the key and got white smoke from the regulator, somehow I don't think that's right. Can you guys double check that picture and tell me if the wires to the regulator are in the right positions.

Thanks,
harry

george kujanski · 09-15-2005, 06:27 PM

From what I see pictorially in the manual, the wiring is in the proper position.

You mention it has a solid state regulator, and I notice that it's a Wells. There have been posting B4 of cases where a A body reg was sold for a B body and vice versa..perhaps you have the wrong style reg? They are not normally the same. Perhaps Wells made a one type-fits-all reg, but I don't know.

Open up the original style reg and see if it has one relay-looking thing or two. Yours needs the single unit (the voltage regulating coil) and the A body gets the other (volt reg. coil and indicator lite relay).

George

Coach · 09-15-2005, 07:32 PM

George,

Thanks so much sir! The unit that smoked was what you descibe asn an A body unit. I dug thru the boxes of crap that came with the car, found another Delco unit with one relay, pluged it in and am reading a very friendly 14.5 -14.9 volts when running. Most cool!

Best regards,
-harry

Guess it's time to get my butt in gear and clock the alternator, lol.

Coach · 09-15-2005, 07:34 PM

By the way, we should hook up some time, I see you are not that far from my neck of the woods. I would be more then happy to buy you a beverage of your choice for the help!

engineer · 09-16-2005, 03:30 PM

George since you mentioned it, why doesn't an original 2 coil A body reg. work in a B body since the B wiring harness only has the two wires instead of the 4 wire harness the A body does? It would seem to me that missing those two wires would allow the 2 coil one to be bypassed and act like a single coil?

george kujanski · 09-16-2005, 04:26 PM

The difference is that in the A (and F body, they use the same), the battery sense connection on terminal 3 goes to a normally open contact on the idiot light relay. It does nothing until the alt "R" terminal provides the voltage to pull in the idiot lite relay, thereby connecting the battery sense terminal to the voltage regulating coil.

On the B body types, the batt sense connection (term 3) goes directly to the voltage sensing coil inside the reg; but is NOT connected directly from the bat, like on the A bodies, instead it is connected to a separate terminal on the ignition switch, which becomes hot when the key is on.

One can take the cover off the reg and make the mods, tho. Should be easy.

George

Coach · 09-16-2005, 05:02 PM

OK Gents,

Well I decided since I am trying to do everything right on the car I would "clock" the alternator. Went ok except I had to pull the housing back a bit to clear the lower mount on the front housing from a casting on the rear housing. Put it together, no probs, put it on the car, no charge. Did the hot wire to the field terminal test, no charge!

So what did I break and is it something I can fix, lol.

Thanks again for the help, -harry

george kujanski · 09-16-2005, 05:38 PM

Harry, you silly guy.......wires ok?

Perhaps you broke the brushes inside if you separated the housing too far.

Get an ohmmeter and measure the "F" terminal to housing. It should be 5 to 10 ohms or so; you may need to spin the alt to get contact thru the brushes.

If the resistance reading is very high, you've probably broken a brush.

Not a big deal tho.. this time separate the housings completely, keeping the stator with the rear housing. Check the condiiton of the brushes in the rear housing.

Get new brushes, or if not broken, reassemble. Here's the catch: you need to hold the brushes up in the brush holder so the slip ring end of the rotor can go in the rear housing. The way to do that is there are holes in the brush holder; insert a paper clip from the back of the rear housing, push the brushes up into the holder, and then insert the paper clip into the brush holder so the brushes are held up into the holder. Assemble the housings. When done, pull out the paper clip, the brushes will then extend out into contact with the slip rings. Measure resistance to check.

George

Coach · 09-16-2005, 06:13 PM

I figured it might be brushes, that is a neat trick to reassemble. I'll give it a try in the morning.

-harry

Coach · 09-17-2005, 11:55 AM

Took the alternator apart, didn't break the brushes, no, I broke the brush holder! I have to wait till Monday for my local alt/starter rebuild shop to open so I can pick up a new one. But hey at least I got a look at the inside and it does apear that everything is new in there.

george kujanski · 09-17-2005, 03:25 PM

I told you so....."WITHOUT SEPARATING THE HOUSINGS," LOL

George

Coach · 09-20-2005, 09:40 PM

Tonight there is joy in Mudville. My local starter/alternator guy dug around in a drawer, found a brush holder for me, and 5 bucks later I have a charging car with the alternator "clocked" properly. BTW, a short piece of #14 solid wire with the insulation peeled back worked great for holding the brushes in place during reassembly.

Thanks for all the help! ! ! So how are you guys with winshield wiper motors, lol.

Best regards,
Harry

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