[dservati]

Having a charging issue with my '63 Bonne and searching this forum I can't find what I need to move forward.

I've replaced the regulator twice over the last 15 years - but kept the one that came with the car. The electronic (non points) versions don't seem to work, they've smoked and/or not made the system charge. I've had to find the mechanical ones and these days they are like hens teeth.

This spring she was not charging (dash gauge shows discharge) so I get a new regulator - parts store tells me electronic ones are better now (plus they cannot get the mechanical ones) - I try it - it smokes - car does not charge. I put the 'original" regulator I had stored all these years and it indicates neutral on dash gauge not charging (probably why I replaced it 15 years ago), and when I put on the head lights it goes to discharge. I had the alternator bench tested and it is fine but I buy a new rebuilt one anyway (was only $50 and it was old so I figured it might go any time now). I found a NOS regulator on line, but before I put it on and smoke it I have some questions.

First the old alt. had a "F" and a "R" stamped on the case but the 'new' rebuilt alternator has no letters next to those terminals. How do I determine what connector the blue wire goes on? ( I didn't note where it was before I disconnected it)

If no one can tell me how to figure that out - I'll put on my old alternator but I still need to know what connector to put the blue wire on F or R?

Will "experimenting" and placing the blue wire on the wrong terminal (F or R) fry the regulator?

Why do the electronic (non-points) regulators not work on my car?

As a side question, why is there a fuse running off of the alternator (old glass type) what's it purpose?

By the way the regulator has three connectors and the harness has two wires. The
part number on the 'original" Delco Remy regulator is 1119511 has 3A 12V stamped on it.

Any help is greatly appreciated I've had my Poncho since 1983 and want to take the kids out for ice cream in her but not starting due to a dead battery makes the whole fun drive idea - dissipate real quick - no matter how good she looks standing still

Thanks,
Dave

[Keith Seymore]

I am an "electrical idiot" - but just went through some simliar problems with my '63 Grand Prix. "george kujanski" and "joeg" helped me out a lot so you might consider shooting one of them a private message.

A coupe things I've learned:

a) The newer regulators have four wires; mine has two (Terminal "F" which is in the "1" position and terminal "3"). Do you know how many yours came with originally?

b) I can only find those newer "solid state" regulators in the four wire configuration. I wonder if your car is a two wire job and you are smoking the s.s. regulators because of that (speculation on my part).

c) I have failed my voltage regulator twice now because it shorted internally; once because the ground wire got over into the coil and shorted it out, and once because the moveable "points" didn't have enough gap and shorted to the grounding terminal (perhaps because of heat from the previous failure). I repaired the original voltage regulator (both times) and now it seems to be working properly. I would recommend you pull the cover off your regulator and see if everything looks normal in there.

As I say, I don't have a fix for you but hopefully primed your thought process.

Here's the link to my most recent failure and posts as we walked through diagnosis and repair: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=633910

Good luck -

K

[george kujanski]

Let's start by checking what you have. If you can take pix of the back of the alt and the regulators I can determine what you have.

I've read reports of members buying new transistorized regulators and having problems, mostly fitting them on the big cars.

The big cars (with ammeters...."charge gauges"), had a two terminal regulator, whereas the "A" and "F" bodies had a 4 terminal regulator.

The four terminal ones need the "R" term on the alt connecting to term2 on the reg to operate the reg. The two terminal versions just used a wire from the ignition switch to operate the reg. In the 4 term reg, a blue wire goes from the "F" term to the "F" term on the reg, and the same should be true on the two term reg. The two term reg does not need the "R" term connected.

The aftermarket transistorized regs may use the 4 term configuration for all the cars, but would require the connections to be made correctly. Are there any instructions that came with the regs? I can see that they could be damaged if not connected correctly.

If you buy a transistorized reg for your big car, and it has 4 terms, demand that instructions are included to connect the big car version.

As Keith says, if you can take the cover off your existing reg, take pix, perhaps we can get yours refurbed and back in operation. Also take pix of the bottom of the reg.


George

[aldbeir]

i'd suspect a wiring problem in burning out the electronic regulators. i got an electronic regulator to replace the tranzistor regulator for the 6.2 perforated stator alternator in my travelall. it worked fine until the alternator quit charging. i was still using the same regulator with the a different alternator til i quit driving it.

[stellar]

1119511 is the reg you need or a replacement for that number. A 3 spade unit. I have a new one if you can't find one. If you get stuck you can also use a reg from a chrysler from the mid 60's. The field should be marked on the alt with the letter F. Your alt plug connection should look like this ( ll ). If it looks like this ( -- ) it is the wrong alt and won't work with an external regulator. There were 2 styles of alts with the ll type connection. The earlier one was on the back of the alt and the later one was on the side. In either case the FIELD is the one on the right looking from the back of the alt. In either case the field is the ll connection farthest from the alternators battery post.

[dservati]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Let's start by checking what you have. If you can take pix of the back of the alt and the regulators I can determine what you have.

I've read reports of members buying new transistorized regulators and having problems, mostly fitting them on the big cars.

The big cars (with ammeters...."charge gauges"), had a two terminal regulator, whereas the "A" and "F" bodies had a 4 terminal regulator.

The four terminal ones need the "R" term on the alt connecting to term2 on the reg to operate the reg. The two terminal versions just used a wire from the ignition switch to operate the reg. In the 4 term reg, a blue wire goes from the "F" term to the "F" term on the reg, and the same should be true on the two term reg. The two term reg does not need the "R" term connected.

The aftermarket transistorized regs may use the 4 term configuration for all the cars, but would require the connections to be made correctly. Are there any instructions that came with the regs? I can see that they could be damaged if not connected correctly.

If you buy a transistorized reg for your big car, and it has 4 terms, demand that instructions are included to connect the big car version.

As Keith says, if you can take the cover off your existing reg, take pix, perhaps we can get yours refurbed and back in operation. Also take pix of the bottom of the reg.


George

Here are some shots of the original reg in the car, the wiring harness, and the back of the newer replacement alt with no R or F on back (in car) and the "old" alt with R & F on back (it tested good). More to follow

[dservati]

Here are shots of the regulators external shot, internal shot, and backs.

Any help you can provide would be great ... I'd love to drive her for the weekend!

Dave

[stellar]

2nd pic alt with blue wire attached. It is in the wrong position as you can see by looking at the markings on the old alt. pic shows blue wire in the R position. Ebay reg should work with the blue wire moved to the field spade.

[dservati]

Originally Posted by stellar

1119511 is the reg you need or a replacement for that number. A 3 spade unit. I have a new one if you can't find one. If you get stuck you can also use a reg from a chrysler from the mid 60's. The field should be marked on the alt with the letter F. Your alt plug connection should look like this ( ll ). If it looks like this ( -- ) it is the wrong alt and won't work with an external regulator. There were 2 styles of alts with the ll type connection. The earlier one was on the back of the alt and the later one was on the side. In either case the FIELD is the one on the right looking from the back of the alt. In either case the field is the ll connection farthest from the alternators battery post.

- Thanks for the info Stellar, Keith and all - Both Alt.s have the (II) style connections. I put the original Alt. back it (the one in the above pictures with the F & R markings) I hope the pictures of the regulators are clear enough for you all to diagnose.

And now I know where the blue wire should go! And it looks like it lines up with the "F" marking on the Regulator.

Will I hurt this "new" non-transistorized regulator if it is wired wrong? - Not sure if I should just plug it in and try it - especially now that I know the blue wire goes to "F" on the Alt.

-Dave

[stellar]

Now that you will have the field in the right position, all should be well. enjoy the weekend. One suggestion, stop at an auto parts store and buy a plug for the alt. then you won't be able to get the wire mixed up and it is safer.

[dservati]

Well she worked! I really think the transistorized regulators are just not right for my car... I am still interested in knowing how to "refurb" the original Delco Remy one. It looks like it has more adjustments to it.

The new one that I installed has a slight charge registering on the dash gauge and on the test drive this a.m. it didn't go way over into the charge area on the gauge may be a 1/4 inch. When I put the headlights on and high beams it dips down into the negative then moves to neutral and then to slightly charging. I wondering if because I had the battery on trickle charge and was fully charge that on the short drive the voltage didn't drop enough for the regulator to call for more charge. -- Thoughts?

Thanks for helping this lurker out!

Dave

[george kujanski]

Good that you've got it working. I'll take a look at your regulator pix later today and see if I can add some info.

George

[dservati]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Good that you've got it working. I'll take a look at your regulator pix later today and see if I can add some info.

George

Thanks George!

[george kujanski]

I tried, but what I need are some good, close-up, in-focus pix of the inside of the reg, preferably from different sides, and the bottom. The previous pix have too much pixelization when i zoom in on them.

George

[dservati]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

I tried, but what I need are some good, close-up, in-focus pix of the inside of the reg, preferably from different sides, and the bottom. The previous pix have too much pixelization when i zoom in on them.

George

Okay - I'll re-shoot the delco remy again. Thanks