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Old 07-26-2022, 09:43 PM
Island Boy Island Boy is offline
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I have only one bad thing to say, I can’t believe that a person took a factory liberty blue convertible and painted it red. Wow. Like there is not enough red GTOs already out there. Nice job on restoration- but killed it with the color change.

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Old 07-27-2022, 06:35 AM
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I have only one bad thing to say, I can’t believe that a person took a factory liberty blue convertible and painted it red. Wow. Like there is not enough red GTOs already out there. Nice job on restoration- but killed it with the color change.
Thanks. I knew I was going to receive some flak for my decision on changing the color. Believe me, It wasn't an easy one. Liberty Blue is definitely a beautiful color. But I had my reasons.

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I want to borrow YOUR thinking cap!

Here is a guide I followed when I installed carpet. May be fake news, but it worked for me. If you want the truth, reach out to rambow on this forum. He may have sent me this guide but if not, he'll know how the factory did this.
Thanks. I reached out to GTO.Paul and he said he'd send me a photo he has of of original carpet. I'll see if it matches this photo you posted.

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If you can't salvage that A-pillar stainless trim I have an extra in my garage.
Thanks. I'll definitely reach out to you if I come to a dead end with mine. I wonder if mine are and oddball as far as the stainless compound they are made of. I'm still hoping to find that out.

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'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO

Last edited by roger1; 07-27-2022 at 06:48 AM.
  #763  
Old 07-27-2022, 12:10 PM
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I have only one bad thing to say, I can’t believe that a person took a factory liberty blue convertible and painted it red. Wow. Like there is not enough red GTOs already out there. Nice job on restoration- but killed it with the color change.
Almost like its HIS car or something. What a **** comment.

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1962 Catalina convertible, Starlight black w maroon interior & white top.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:48 AM
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Roger, I can't address trim specifically, but I have bought a LOT of metal over the years. There can be considerable difference in behavior with SS and Aluminum. With the SS it's usually work hardening issues or slight differences in alloy, SS is extremely sensitive to minor alloying differences, how it's annealed etc. Aluminum it's usually the pickling or anodizing that varies batch to batch.

A little extra chrome or nickel in the SS can make a major difference in it's hardness, formability and work hardening characteristics. I would imagine that there could be considerable variance in SS alloy batches used for trim on vehicles since it's not structural and long as GM got the part they wanted from the vendor and it fit and looked the way they wanted they wouldn't really care about the minutia of the metallurgy. Also quite possible that the trim manufacturer changed alloys mid-stream if they were having some issue with stamping etc.

I love welding SS, hate working it and machining it, very hard on the tooling if you aren't setup to do it all the time.

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Old 07-28-2022, 10:08 AM
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Roger, I can't address trim specifically, but I have bought a LOT of metal over the years. There can be considerable difference in behavior with SS and Aluminum. With the SS it's usually work hardening issues or slight differences in alloy, SS is extremely sensitive to minor alloying differences, how it's annealed etc. Aluminum it's usually the pickling or anodizing that varies batch to batch.

A little extra chrome or nickel in the SS can make a major difference in it's hardness, formability and work hardening characteristics. I would imagine that there could be considerable variance in SS alloy batches used for trim on vehicles since it's not structural and long as GM got the part they wanted from the vendor and it fit and looked the way they wanted they wouldn't really care about the minutia of the metallurgy. Also quite possible that the trim manufacturer changed alloys mid-stream if they were having some issue with stamping etc.

I love welding SS, hate working it and machining it, very hard on the tooling if you aren't setup to do it all the time.
What you say sounds very logical to me. I'm going to give another stab at these using a different process before I give up on them and look for another pair.

I started over on them yesterday. For one thing, I had noticed that there were some pits in them that I missed and I wanted to get those out. I was thinking they were from road rash but now I think they were a manufacturing defect. A few of them where deep and I had to go to a 120 grit file to get them totally out.

Like I said before, I've never had to sand finer than 600 grit on any stainless I've polished over the years as the sisal wheel would remove those scratches without any problem.
My plan with these w/s trim pieces now is to meticulously sand them out to 2000 grit step by step with 180,220,320,400 all dry and 600,800,1000,1200,1500 and 2000 all wet.
I've got all those papers on hand except for 800 so I need to take a trip to the body shop supply store. I've also ordered online some 2" wet/dry hook & loop discs in 600,800,1000,1200,1500 and 2000. Starting with 600, I will alternate between hand sanding and using the discs on my 2" D/A. That way it should be easy to tell visually when I've successfully removed the scratches left from the previously used grit.

When I take them to my polisher, I will skip the sisal wheel step and start with the Eastwood stainless compound on a sewn wheel and then follow up with white rouge on the loose wheel.

If this doesn't work, about the only other thing I can think of to try is to use a different brand of compound and possibly wheels. But I don't know, it might just be time to acquire another pair of trim at that point.

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  #766  
Old 07-28-2022, 10:17 AM
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The pitting may be a sign of a different or poor alloy if it's substantially different than the other trim pieces. Now and then I see SS trim that appears to have been more susceptible to rust than others. All SS alloys are not equal when it comes to corrosion resistance.

I send you some pics of the trim set I have.

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  #767  
Old 07-28-2022, 10:28 AM
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Thanks. Just sent you my email address in a PM.

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  #768  
Old 07-28-2022, 05:26 PM
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Ok. Gotta a new plan. Johnny and I have been conversing via email.
I did another test on my w/s post trim today that convinced me that they will never polish out nicely no matter what process I use. So yesterday I started over to remove pits I didn't see the first time. After removing those and getting a test section sanded through 600 grit today, new pits started getting uncovered. That indicates to me that it is porosity in the metal and it's just not a good alloy. It's way harder than stainless normally is. It took me over to hours of hand sanding with 600 wet sandpaper to sand out 400 scratches in just a 5" section.
Johnny sent me photos of the '68 convertible pair he has . They are identical to my '69 pair and they already had a test polish on a section on one. Hard to see in the photo how that polished section look but he said it looks quite nice. Sounds for sure like they are not the same problem alloy mine are made of. He's going to get them shipped out to me.
Thank you Johnny!!

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Old 08-14-2022, 07:48 PM
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So the windshield post trim I got from Johnny didn't work out like I hoped. The stainless acted exactly the same as the ones that came with my car. They just won't polish up nicely with the process I use.

So, I decided to take a chance and buy a set of reproductions by Restoparts that OPGI carries. After taking out of the box and inspecting, the polish job on them wasn't great but the fit looked perfect. They are a bit thinner but that doesn't make any difference. After a test polish, I decided they would polish out fine. I found the stainless they were made from were still quite a bit harder to polish than most other stainless I've done but the end result passes for me.



Here's the pair and the original inner pieces all completed:



Installed new clips that came from Ames and the rivets came from a Chevelle parts supplier.



Ordered some speaker grate, cut and installed it to protect the rear speakers. I had mentioned that I had intended to do that.



I finally received the door panels I had on order from Legendary since last December. They told me at the time they would take 8 months and that was right on the money. I polished and installed the original stainless trim onto them. These polished easily and fast much more like I'm used to.





Installed a set of Air Lift air bags in the rear springs and was able to do that without having to drill any holes by putting the access to the air fittings in the trunk and using existing factory holes.













I had ordered tires a couple of weeks ago and was able to get them and have them installed on the wheels last week (raised white letters to the inside). They are Cooper Cobras and are 235/60R-15 front and 255/60R-15 on the rear. I brushed SPI black epoxy primer onto the raised white letters so they wouldn't show from under the car. Also bought a new tire for the spare. It's a Cooper Endeavor and is 215/70R-15. I chose this because it's a smaller tire but has the same diameter as the rear tires.

In these photos, the air bags have about 10-15 psi in them and is what I'd like to run them at. The space between the top of the front tire and the fender is about 1.5 inches more than the space between the top of the rear tire and quarter panel. Even though not everything is installed in the car yet, I know for certain now that I'm going to have to change the front springs.









I've ordered trim rings from OPGI but they have been on backorder now for more than a couple of months. I get regular updates from them but every time they have extended the time by 2 more weeks.

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2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
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Old 08-15-2022, 03:46 AM
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Sweet, looking great.

BTW ... I was trying to polish two different rear rocker extensions that came off two different cars from different factories. One just would not polish, just like you describe, and the pits were there .. it just wouldn't loose a slight "satin" look. The other one polished fine.

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Old 08-16-2022, 09:15 AM
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Car is looking fantastic !!

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Old 08-17-2022, 06:09 PM
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Question Just a thought, Roger

I was admiring your speaker installation, and as I'm doing some work in my trunk ('72 Lemans), I've pulled the conv top well liner up and ... there are some speakers, but they don't look original. The speaker holes for 6x9s are factory holes there.

While looking around the web, I came across this thread from the Chevelle (yuk) site, and it is discussed that the speakers were mounted "inside" the liner so they can be heard with the top up ... REALLY? With the boot stuffed down there they must be muffled, but the functionality would definitely be better inside the liner.

Just an interesting thought for discussion.

Ogre

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  #773  
Old 08-18-2022, 01:56 PM
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Sweet, looking great.
BTW ... I was trying to polish two different rear rocker extensions that came off two different cars from different factories. One just would not polish, just like you describe, and the pits were there .. it just wouldn't loose a slight "satin" look. The other one polished fine.
Thanks!
I am wondering now if the pits aren't porosity but rather spots getting pulled out because of the heat generated when polishing. Since they don't seem to respond when you have them on the wheel, the feeling is to press the piece harder into it and of course that generates more heat then when polishing other trim pieces that do respond normally. I don't know though, this was just a thought.
Interesting to see this car come up on BaT this week that shows the restorer couldn't polish out the w/s post stainless trim either. Look at photo # 31 & 36
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-pontiac-gto-13/

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Car is looking fantastic !!
Thank you sir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
I was admiring your speaker installation, and as I'm doing some work in my trunk ('72 Lemans), I've pulled the conv top well liner up and ... there are some speakers, but they don't look original. The speaker holes for 6x9s are factory holes there.
While looking around the web, I came across this thread from the Chevelle (yuk) site, and it is discussed that the speakers were mounted "inside" the liner so they can be heard with the top up ... REALLY? With the boot stuffed down there they must be muffled, but the functionality would definitely be better inside the liner.
Just an interesting thought for discussion.
Ogre
Thanks.
I had seen that thread before. They are talking about putting speakers on the inside of the side panels facing out not in the factory locations. If you look again, you can see the perforations on the side panel that allow sound to pass through.
He said that they are 5 1/4" speakers. Without being enclosed from behind, I wouldn't expect it would sound great but the highs should get through.
With the 3-way 6X9 speakers I have mounted in the factory holes I know I'm going to lose the highs but the lower frequencies should be OK. With the top down, I'm not sure I care much how the music sounds.

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2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
  #774  
Old 08-18-2022, 03:25 PM
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Actually talking about the rear speakers (facing rear), and not the rear ones in the arm rests (panels) w/holes.

Post #10 in the referenced website, shows the speaker cover installed "inside" the liner. It appears that a hole was cut in the liner to make the speaker output in the liner, rather than to the outside of the liner. He says it was factory installation inside the liner.

As I said, I don't know, but I can see a "slight" advantage to doing that way.

Just thinking out loud to get ready for my speakers/liner install.

Ogre

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Old 08-18-2022, 03:37 PM
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Actually talking about the rear speakers (facing rear), and not the rear ones in the arm rests (panels) w/holes.
Post #10 in the referenced website, shows the speaker cover installed "inside" the liner. It appears that a hole was cut in the liner to make the speaker output in the liner, rather than to the outside of the liner. He says it was factory installation inside the liner.
As I said, I don't know, but I can see a "slight" advantage to doing that way.
Just thinking out loud to get ready for my speakers/liner install.
Ogre
I figured I would have the guy who is going to install the top install the liner too. I was intending on removing the speaker grilles I made and have him cut holes in the liner for the speakers and re-install the covers over the cut edges on the liner.
Does that sound like a good plan to you?

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2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
  #776  
Old 08-18-2022, 04:03 PM
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...
Does that sound like a good plan to you?
After I read through that chevelle thread, it struck me that the sound going "into" the liner, vs. "at" the liner, would definitely get better sound to the compartment with the top up. But I had never thought about that. My only negative thought was that the top boot being stuffed in the liner (with the top up) would muffle some of the sound anyway.

Just thought I would bring the subject up, and see if anybody here has their 'Vert rear speakers mounted that way. Mine are not, but I'm pretty sure my liner has been replaced before. My speakers are actually a MESS (not original), so I will have more work to do, and I might be tempted to cut the liner for speaker installation.

Very minor point ... your work is still the best I've seen Roger. I keep coming back to your thread.

Ogre

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Old 08-20-2022, 12:13 PM
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I think you should do the top installation. With your eye on details the end result I'm sure would be excellent. Many posts on this site showing owner installed tops and it's amazing how well they come out compared to some of the "Professional" installations I've seen with saggy, wrinkled sail panels.
Besides, if you do the install, we'd all have another great resource added to this awesome thread!

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Old 08-20-2022, 01:16 PM
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Speakers on convertibles in those years varied even within Pontiac within 69.

The A bodies (LeMans-GTO) had an optional 6x9 rear speaker that mounted on the right hand (passenger) side of the top well facing rearward. The top well liner was cut at the factory and the black steel speaker grille (same as used on dealer installed package tray install on coupes and sedans) screwed onto the speaker holding the liner in place. This rear speaker was optional stand alone with either the AM or AM/FM mono radio, it was included with the stereo radio and/or the 8 track player. The left side speaker position was never used on A bodies by the factory on any bodystyle.

The B body (Catalina and Bonneville) convertibles had an optional 4x10 rear speaker that mounted on the vertical face of the passenger rear armrest just above the seat cushion. The plastic grille was unique to convertibles and was color keyed to the interior color. No passenger side speaker was ever offered on the convertibles (however unlike A bodies coupes and sedans with stereo and/or 8 track did come with twin rear speakers) and it was offered optionally with a mono radio and included with stereo radio and/or 8 track.

The F body (Firebird) convertible was similar to the A body in terms of availability and placement with either mono radio but when a stereo radio and/or an 8 track player was installed you received two speakers in the top well (along with two front kick panel speakers).

I believe the reason the F and A bodies did not use the seemingly superior armrest placement location of the B bodies is that the quarter to floor brace present on all convertibles presented an obstruction for the 4x10 rear speaker (same unit with a different grille used on wagons).

I recall when my kids were little they loved listening to the “secret” music they could hear through the rear seat back of my LeMans convertible with the top down.

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Old 08-21-2022, 12:10 PM
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I think you should do the top installation. With your eye on details the end result I'm sure would be excellent. Many posts on this site showing owner installed tops and it's amazing how well they come out compared to some of the "Professional" installations I've seen with saggy, wrinkled sail panels.
Besides, if you do the install, we'd all have another great resource added to this awesome thread!
Thanks for the vote of confidence but this is something I wouldn't enjoy doing at all and feel I'd rather leave it to a pro. And the pro I use is the best of the best and a perfectionist.
I did install the top on my '69 Corvette with my wife's help and we did a nice job on it. But we both didn't enjoy it at all and I'm sure the GTO top is harder to do than that one was.

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  #780  
Old 08-21-2022, 12:58 PM
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It is, as it is a 2 piece setup.

I did several tops, starting with a Fiat 850 (easy) and a 1966 442 (difficult).
The Lemans was easier as it has a floating trim stick setup but not easy.

If you have the scratch and a guy (or gal) you trust to do it correctly I would do that -
why be miserable?

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