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Old 07-04-2022, 06:30 PM
540goat 540goat is offline
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Default Opening up my 67 scoop.

I want to cut out the scoop on my car. The scoop is painted so I need to be careful. How have you guys done this.

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Old 07-04-2022, 07:01 PM
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Drill holes. Cut between the holes with a die grinder or dremel.

K

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Old 07-04-2022, 08:49 PM
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Drill holes. Cut between the holes with a die grinder or dremel.

K
How thick is it. I was thinking of using my 3 inch angle grinder and just going around the edge on the inside.

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Old 07-04-2022, 11:18 PM
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You'll burn the paint from the heat of a abrasive wheel grinder, been there done that many years ago. The casting is fairly thick, plus the horizontal ribs make it even thicker. There is no easy way to follow the curve at either end cutting through the ribs without some type of a burr as Keith has said, the burr doesn't generate as much heat as a cutoff wheel does. Opening up the casting isn't a fun job, and it's tedious.

Screwing up the finish on the opening, is probably why some of the castings got painted flat black after the paint got messed up during the project. The flat black spray bomb hides a multitude of paint sins......

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Old 07-04-2022, 11:27 PM
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I have one already opened in grey primer. If you are interested I can take pictures of it tomorrow.

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Old 07-05-2022, 07:03 PM
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ID:	593783I've done a few of them over the years, and found an easy way, and it leaves the ribs intact. I take a die grinder with a cut-off wheel and make passes along the back side of each cup until the rear of the cup is removed, leaving the ribs. It only takes a few minutes and looks great. The weird reflection on the hood is the blinds on a window on the house.

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Old 07-08-2022, 10:39 PM
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May I ask why you want to open the scoop up?

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Old 07-12-2022, 06:26 AM
540goat 540goat is offline
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May I ask why you want to open the scoop up?
Because I want to. Why did Pontiac choose to sell a version that was open. To feed the carb cold air.

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Old 07-12-2022, 11:48 AM
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Yeah, I opened up the scoop on my '66, too. I always thought it was kinda silly for the GTO to be sold with a hood scoop that was for decoration only. For such a prominent styling element on the the car to be fake is a disappointment. By now we all know that the aerodynamics of the car don't lend themselves to any sort of "ram air" effect, but getting cold air into the carb in conjunction with a carb pan that is sealed to the underside of the hood is still a good thing.

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Old 07-12-2022, 01:12 PM
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I always thought it was kinda silly for the GTO to be sold with a hood scoop that was for decoration only. For such a prominent styling element on the the car to be fake is a disappointment.
Water ingestion.

You wouldn't want to drive your car in the rain with an open forward facing scoop, especially with the air pan installed.

Remember that these cars were designed for daily use, among worst case customers.

(Also - the '64 "scoops" were fake, too).

K

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Old 07-12-2022, 01:18 PM
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As an alternative to cutting up your original part: might I suggest running no nose piece?

Our car was trimmed to leave the minimal amount of edge, coupled with the trimmed hood inner means you can stick both your arms through there.

Like this (red car shown for contrast):

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Old 07-12-2022, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Water ingestion.

You wouldn't want to drive your car in the rain with an open forward facing scoop, especially with the air pan installed.

Remember that these cars were designed for daily use, among worst case customers.


K
FYI, the ram air pan is designed to cope with a reasonable amount of rain. The carb inlets are raised and it has water drain holes.

Also FYI, I have an open scoop and ram air pan on my '66 tripower car. I've dynoed my car hood open and closed, and it loses almost 20 RWHP with the hood closed, because the stock scoop opening is too small to feed air to that engine (@ 400+ RWHP). It starts pulling a vacuum through that tiny scoop inlet. I didn't glue my seal to the pan for that reason - when it starts pulling vacuum, it pulls the side of the seal in to grab more air (albeit hot underhood air). Another reason to not glue the seal is if you're caught in really heavy rain, you can plug the scoop openings and remove the pan seal to get home.

Finally, for the OP, I drilled holes then used a fine coping saw to cut mine open. Final trimming was with a die grinder and sanding roll.

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Old 07-12-2022, 02:18 PM
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Finally, for the OP, I drilled holes then used a fine coping saw to cut mine open. Final trimming was with a die grinder and sanding roll.
That's how my '77 T/A scoop was opened, then metal window screen was epoxied in the hole.

This question might also get some good responses in one of the 2nd gen T/A forums, as there are a lot of opened scoops there, as well.

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Old 07-12-2022, 03:09 PM
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Because I want to. Why did Pontiac choose to sell a version that was open. To feed the carb cold air.
You do know that there is more to it than just opening the scoop, don't you? I do not mean to sound offensive or anything, I bought an open hood scoop with the same intent until I learned what else had to be done to get the ram air. I didn't feel comfortable cutting the bracing out of the hood so I ditched the idea.

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Old 07-12-2022, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf View Post
FYI, the ram air pan is designed to cope with a reasonable amount of rain. The carb inlets are raised and it has water drain holes.

Also FYI, I have an open scoop and ram air pan on my '66 tripower car. I've dynoed my car hood open and closed, and it loses almost 20 RWHP with the hood closed, because the stock scoop opening is too small to feed air to that engine (@ 400+ RWHP). It starts pulling a vacuum through that tiny scoop inlet. I didn't glue my seal to the pan for that reason - when it starts pulling vacuum, it pulls the side of the seal in to grab more air (albeit hot underhood air). Another reason to not glue the seal is if you're caught in really heavy rain, you can plug the scoop openings and remove the pan seal to get home.
I was planning to use adhesive-backed velcro strips to keep the foam in place while still being easily removable. As you say, the ram air setup can deal with a moderate amount of rain. When you're driving, I'd be willing to bet that the low-pressure zone surrounding the hood scoop inlet doesn't actually see much direct rain. If it starts raining cats & dogs, remove the pan foam, plug the hood scoop with your socks, and you're good to go.

I actually have two hood scoop inserts (one open, one closed) and I plan to keep the extra one in the trunk. If I feel truly compelled to do so, I can swap the open insert for the closed insert while on the road and on carry on. But most likely I'll just remove the foam and jam my socks in the open scoop. Most of our cars probably never see rain at this point in their lives anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrffytr1 View Post
You do know that there is more to it than just opening the scoop, don't you? I do not mean to sound offensive or anything, I bought an open hood scoop with the same intent until I learned what else had to be done to get the ram air. I didn't feel comfortable cutting the bracing out of the hood so I ditched the idea.
It is definitely worth mentioning this to OP. Not everyone knows it isn't as simple as replacing the insert. Personally, I wasn't concerned with the removing the hood metal that needs to be taken out, but I totally get why someone else might not want to do it to their GTO. My car was so far from original by the time I got it that I figured adding some period correct performance enhancements would be worthwhile. And a metal fabricator could easily return it back to stock if it really came down to it.




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Old 07-12-2022, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrffytr1 View Post
You do know that there is more to it than just opening the scoop, don't you? I do not mean to sound offensive or anything, I bought an open hood scoop with the same intent until I learned what else had to be done to get the ram air. I didn't feel comfortable cutting the bracing out of the hood so I ditched the idea.
Five hundred and forty C.I.D. Just saying.

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Old 07-12-2022, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf View Post
FYI, the ram air pan is designed to cope with a reasonable amount of rain. The carb inlets are raised and it has water drain holes.

Also FYI, I have an open scoop and ram air pan on my '66 tripower car. I've dynoed my car hood open and closed, and it loses almost 20 RWHP with the hood closed, because the stock scoop opening is too small to feed air to that engine (@ 400+ RWHP). It starts pulling a vacuum through that tiny scoop inlet. I didn't glue my seal to the pan for that reason - when it starts pulling vacuum, it pulls the side of the seal in to grab more air (albeit hot underhood air). Another reason to not glue the seal is if you're caught in really heavy rain, you can plug the scoop openings and remove the pan seal to get home.

Finally, for the OP, I drilled holes then used a fine coping saw to cut mine open. Final trimming was with a die grinder and sanding roll.
I am somewhat familiar, ie:

The original ram air pan, as fabricated in PMD Experimental metal shop:




The car which was used to develop the ram air package:





The hood was already cut and the battery already mounted in the trunk before we picked the car up from Royal in September of '64.

This is the letter that authorized us to run the ram air set up in 1965 NHRA B Stock competition before it was released to the public.


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Old 07-12-2022, 06:00 PM
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^^^Neat!!

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Old 07-12-2022, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam View Post
I was planning to use adhesive-backed velcro strips to keep the foam in place while still being easily removable. As you say, the ram air setup can deal with a moderate amount of rain. When you're driving, I'd be willing to bet that the low-pressure zone surrounding the hood scoop inlet doesn't actually see much direct rain. If it starts raining cats & dogs, remove the pan foam, plug the hood scoop with your socks, and you're good to go.

I actually have two hood scoop inserts (one open, one closed) and I plan to keep the extra one in the trunk. If I feel truly compelled to do so, I can swap the open insert for the closed insert while on the road and on carry on. But most likely I'll just remove the foam and jam my socks in the open scoop. Most of our cars probably never see rain at this point in their lives anyway.



It is definitely worth mentioning this to OP. Not everyone knows it isn't as simple as replacing the insert. Personally, I wasn't concerned with the removing the hood metal that needs to be taken out, but I totally get why someone else might not want to do it to their GTO. My car was so far from original by the time I got it that I figured adding some period correct performance enhancements would be worthwhile. And a metal fabricator could easily return it back to stock if it really came down to it.



I see where the large cut came from but where did the two small pieces come from?

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Old 07-12-2022, 08:14 PM
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I see where the large cut came from but where did the two small pieces come from?
There are two vertical sections that are hidden behind the scoop insert. Here is a photo of my car before I opened up the hood.



Here is a cross-sectional diagram showing what needs to be removed.



If you're curious about the process, here is a 2007 article from Hot Rod outlining everything in detail: LINK

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