#1  
Old 07-06-2022, 05:38 PM
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Default Thinking of Skipping the Pull Handles...

So, I have decided to replace the now 49 year old upper door panels in my '73 Trans Am with Black Deluxe Interior. I have done this job twice on my previous '73 cars - and I learned from my mistakes (!) - so this should be a pretty easy install. I also installed pre-cut F-Body Dynamat to the doors last week while waiting on my upper door panels from PUI.

Most of the Black Deluxe upper door panels have the locating holes for the soft 'Pull Straps' punched through the vinyl, so you are sort of stuck re-installing the pull straps. However, the panels I just received to not have the locating holes punched through the Vinyl for the pull straps - and I am seriously considering skipping them.

Here's the deal - on 2 of the 3 '73 Trans Ams I have owned, at least one of the mounting screws for the pull straps has gotten wallered' out to the point where the strap would not stay affixed to the door panel.

And as I look at the panels without the pull straps installed, I think they look sleeker and 'cleaner.' And the 'pull cup' in the lower plastic panel is screwed tightly into the metal ledge affixed to the door, so that is by far the most 'solid' place to grab onto to close the door.

I have a pic of Black 'Deluxe' door panels with the locating holes for the pull straps - and then a pic of Red Deluxe door panels with no locating holes for comparison. My new black panels are smooth just like the red ones in the pic.

I also have a couple of pics of 73 - 76 cars with 'Standard' interior and neither car has the pull strap - maybe the strap was exclusive to the Deluxe interior??

So I am about 90% sure I am gonna leave the pull straps off - at least for now. If I decide down the road that I really want them, it might be max 30 minutes to pull the panels and install the straps. But once those holes are punched through the vinyl, there's no going back.

Thoughts on Deluxe Door Panels without the soft 'Pull Strap'???
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2022, 11:28 PM
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I say leave them off

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Old 07-07-2022, 01:47 AM
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Never cared for pull straps on any vehicle. Looks nice without them.

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Old 07-07-2022, 10:17 AM
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looks clean without them but also look ok with them if they can mount right. might be able to puch that wallowed hole in so it grabs the screw better or weld it & re drill.

have you used the PUI door panels before? i have a set on my 72 & they look ok but dont install very good, many of the holes for the push pins along the sides are in the wrong place or dont line up with the holes in the door... & my biggest complaint is how the top rail is, it doesnt secure down to the door like the factory panels do, ive seen this on bother the PUI early uppers & later year full 1 piece panels, they just kinda flap around & sit loosely on the top of the door. any tricks or suggestions for getting them to mount like factory panels?

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Old 07-07-2022, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78w72 View Post
looks clean without them but also look ok with them if they can mount right. might be able to puch that wallowed hole in so it grabs the screw better or weld it & re drill.

have you used the PUI door panels before? i have a set on my 72 & they look ok but dont install very good, many of the holes for the push pins along the sides are in the wrong place or dont line up with the holes in the door... & my biggest complaint is how the top rail is, it doesnt secure down to the door like the factory panels do, ive seen this on bother the PUI early uppers & later year full 1 piece panels, they just kinda flap around & sit loosely on the top of the door. any tricks or suggestions for getting them to mount like factory panels?
I installed 2 sets of these - one set on each of the 73 cars I used to own. I did have that issue with the top rail seeming 'loose' on the first panel I installed. The second one was nice and tight. So I went back to the first one and I would attribute my fitment issue to user error.

I found that as you rotate rotate the orientation of the metal clips in the holes, it makes a big difference in how they do - or do not - line up against the door. Maybe each individual clip doesn't seem to make that big a difference, but if you were to rotate all of them down at the 6:00 position for example, the top rail would ride higher than if all the clips were rotated fully 'up' at the high noon position. Same deal orienting the clips either at the 9:00 or 3:00 position in the holes will place the door panel further forward or back on the door.

So now I have a set of loosely bent 'test clips' that I leave loose in the holes of the panel to see where each one wants to settle in when the panel is positioned correctly against the door. Then I replace the loose fitting clips with fresh, tight grabbing clips in the same orientation.

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Old 07-07-2022, 11:54 AM
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thanks for the tips, i found the side metal push pins can rotate somewhat to help them align better but a couple still dont fit right, i just left them out & the sides are mostly secure. but the side clips dont help with the top[ rail issue, the PUI panels dont have the tabs like the factory ones do that clip on to the window felt pads & that is what makes the top rail not be secured. on the later year 1 piece panels GM started using a metal strap in that area to secure to the felts, the plastic ones usually cracked after a couple removals over the years.

i just live with mine now since when the door is closed they are secure. i did notice very small metal tabs on the PUI panels but no indication of how to bend them to make them function anything like the GM panels. do you recall what if anything you did to make teh top rail fit secure like originals?

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Old 07-07-2022, 12:56 PM
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1. Without the pull straps, people pull door shut with what? The opening lever? Or yank on the armrest pad, or most likely yank the lower door panel. I have owned a couple std interior cars and the lever and lower door panel gets ruined, the arm rest pad comes off.
2. You can put a larger clip behind the strap, and you can run a longer screw into it and start a pilot hole in the door, and run the screw into the door, that really firms things up.
I have even welded a nut in the door, and used a machine screw and a washer vs a clip.
On later cars with a armrest handle, I weld a nut to door as well to keep the handle from getting broke

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Old 07-07-2022, 02:16 PM
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good idea welding a nut, but on these doors if you dont have a welder handy, there is plenty of room to just use a wrench on a nut. i will have to remember that if my early door strap or later 1 piece pull handle ever rips the bolt out.

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Old 07-07-2022, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulabruce View Post
1. Without the pull straps, people pull door shut with what? The opening lever? Or yank on the armrest pad, or most likely yank the lower door panel. I have owned a couple std interior cars and the lever and lower door panel gets ruined, the arm rest pad comes off.
2. You can put a larger clip behind the strap, and you can run a longer screw into it and start a pilot hole in the door, and run the screw into the door, that really firms things up.
I have even welded a nut in the door, and used a machine screw and a washer vs a clip.
On later cars with a armrest handle, I weld a nut to door as well to keep the handle from getting broke
Only FWIW - on my doors, there is a VERY sturdy bracket that comes off of the door at a 90* angle like an 'L' and there is a 'cup' on the lower door panel with a pair of machine screws that literally screws down onto the metal L bracket. It makes the 'cup' on the lower door panel by far the sturdiest thing to grab onto to pull the door shut. I have to think that is why GM left the soft strap off of the cars with 'standard' interior??

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Old 07-07-2022, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 78w72 View Post
thanks for the tips, i found the side metal push pins can rotate somewhat to help them align better but a couple still dont fit right, i just left them out & the sides are mostly secure. but the side clips dont help with the top[ rail issue, the PUI panels dont have the tabs like the factory ones do that clip on to the window felt pads & that is what makes the top rail not be secured. on the later year 1 piece panels GM started using a metal strap in that area to secure to the felts, the plastic ones usually cracked after a couple removals over the years.

i just live with mine now since when the door is closed they are secure. i did notice very small metal tabs on the PUI panels but no indication of how to bend them to make them function anything like the GM panels. do you recall what if anything you did to make teh top rail fit secure like originals?
I just remember that after getting the metal clips on the upper door panel oriented up to the 12:00 position, it positioned the door panel lower and more firmly along the top of the inside of the door. I am installing these on Saturday (if my hardware arrives) so I will definitely post up a review of this particular run of PUI upper door panels.

  #11  
Old 07-11-2022, 08:30 AM
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Here is the driver’s door. I really like the pull-strap delete look. And the lower hard plastic panel does screw down onto the L-shaped bracket with machine screws, so the pull-cup in the lower panel is a rock solid place to use to close the door.

The PUI panels are not exact reproductions of the GM panels. A couple of the holes for the metal fasteners needed to be carefully ‘elongated’ the get the clip in line with the hole in the door. I used the original panels as a guide and carefully measured where the original clips were located on the original panels. That allowed me to get 90% close on the first try with minimal massaging after that.

As far as having the upper rail lay tight down to the top of the door - that can be tricky. I found that the holes on the PUI panels that you use to attach the lower door panel were located too low / too close to the bottom of the panel. So when you pop the lower door panel fasteners into place, it would shove the upper panel and top rail up off the top of the door. So I took some more measurements and carefully elongated those holes upward to allow the lower door panel to attach in higher position. That allowed the lower door panel fasteners to mate up with the holes in the door without shoving the whole assembly upward.

The PUI parts are sturdy and well made. They look nice. My advice is carefully measure where every factory fastener attaches to your factory door panels and do as much careful modification / enlargement / relocation of the fastener holes in the PUI panels as possible before you make the first ‘test fit.’ That way, you are not prying the panel on an off multiple times - which can fatigue the fasteners in the door and can fatigue the fiberboard where the fasteners attach to the panel.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2022, 09:53 AM
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Looks good- I like it without the strap

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Old 07-11-2022, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PDC View Post
Here is the driver’s door. I really like the pull-strap delete look. And the lower hard plastic panel does screw down onto the L-shaped bracket with machine screws, so the pull-cup in the lower panel is a rock solid place to use to close the door.

The PUI panels are not exact reproductions of the GM panels. A couple of the holes for the metal fasteners needed to be carefully ‘elongated’ the get the clip in line with the hole in the door. I used the original panels as a guide and carefully measured where the original clips were located on the original panels. That allowed me to get 90% close on the first try with minimal massaging after that.

As far as having the upper rail lay tight down to the top of the door - that can be tricky. I found that the holes on the PUI panels that you use to attach the lower door panel were located too low / too close to the bottom of the panel. So when you pop the lower door panel fasteners into place, it would shove the upper panel and top rail up off the top of the door. So I took some more measurements and carefully elongated those holes upward to allow the lower door panel to attach in higher position. That allowed the lower door panel fasteners to mate up with the holes in the door without shoving the whole assembly upward.

The PUI parts are sturdy and well made. They look nice. My advice is carefully measure where every factory fastener attaches to your factory door panels and do as much careful modification / enlargement / relocation of the fastener holes in the PUI panels as possible before you make the first ‘test fit.’ That way, you are not prying the panel on an off multiple times - which can fatigue the fasteners in the door and can fatigue the fiberboard where the fasteners attach to the panel.
thanks for the update on the panels. i didnt elongate the lower holes for the plastic push pins, mine seemed to align nice & didnt notice any upward push on the panel as a whole.

are you saying that by elongating those lower holes for the plastic push pins that will bring the whole panel down enough so that the top rail will fit tightly & securely to the top of the door like the GM ones do? doesnt something have to clip or hook onto the felt pads like the gm ones do in order to actually hold that top rail tight? i dont see anything on the PUI panels of a few years ago that would allow them to do that. there are 3 metal tabs that can be bent but they arent hooks of any sort & dont grab the felt pads like the gm ones do... i dont see those 3 tabs on the metal top rail in your pics, maybe they changed or removed them?

with the door open, are the top rail of yours tight like GM ones are? in other words, can you lift up on that top rail where the inner window seal strip or hole around the door lock is? mine will lift up there with the door open & every other set or PUI ive seen on other cars do the same thing. next time my door panels are off i will look at elongating the lower holes & try to get the side metal push pins to align better, but still dont see how the top rail will be secured to the top of the door.

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Old 07-11-2022, 10:23 AM
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thanks for the update on the panels. i didnt elongate the lower holes for the plastic push pins, mine seemed to align nice & didnt notice any upward push on the panel as a whole.

are you saying that by elongating those lower holes for the plastic push pins that will bring the whole panel down enough so that the top rail will fit tightly & securely to the top of the door like the GM ones do? doesnt something have to clip or hook onto the felt pads like the gm ones do in order to actually hold that top rail tight? i dont see anything on the PUI panels of a few years ago that would allow them to do that. there are 3 metal tabs that can be bent but they arent hooks of any sort & dont grab the felt pads like the gm ones do... i dont see those 3 tabs on the metal top rail in your pics, maybe they changed or removed them?

with the door open, are the top rail of yours tight like GM ones are? in other words, can you lift up on that top rail where the inner window seal strip or hole around the door lock is? mine will lift up there with the door open & every other set or PUI ive seen on other cars do the same thing. next time my door panels are off i will look at elongating the lower holes & try to get the side metal push pins to align better, but still dont see how the top rail will be secured to the top of the door.
This gets a bit confusing - and its my fault for not taking better dedicated pictures of this issue. If you look at the picture I posted of the back side of the original GM upper panel and he PUI upper panel you will see along the bottom edge of the PUI upper door panel, there are 5 round holes. These are the holes where the plastic tabs on the lower door panel push through and attach with those flat plastic clips so that the upper and lower door panels form one, full size panel (in 2 pieces).

On the original GM upper panel, you can see that the holes are rectangular slots so there is room for the lower plastic panel to slide up and down in the slots increasing or decreasing the overall height of the completed panel when the 2 pieces are attached.

I had to ‘slot’ the round holes in the PUI panels so that the lower plastic panel could slide up relative to the upper panel - like it could with the original GM panel. This allowed me to position the lower door panel in the bottom of the door without shoving the upper door panel up and off the top of the door. I hope that all makes sense. I did not see any sort of fastening tabs to secure the upper rail of the upper PUI panel to the top edge of the door. But once everything was attached, the hard rails of the PUI panels stay secure to the top of the door.

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Old 07-11-2022, 10:57 AM
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This gets a bit confusing - and its my fault for not taking better dedicated pictures of this issue. If you look at the picture I posted of the back side of the original GM upper panel and he PUI upper panel you will see along the bottom edge of the PUI upper door panel, there are 5 round holes. These are the holes where the plastic tabs on the lower door panel push through and attach with those flat plastic clips so that the upper and lower door panels form one, full size panel (in 2 pieces).

On the original GM upper panel, you can see that the holes are rectangular slots so there is room for the lower plastic panel to slide up and down in the slots increasing or decreasing the overall height of the completed panel when the 2 pieces are attached.

I had to ‘slot’ the round holes in the PUI panels so that the lower plastic panel could slide up relative to the upper panel - like it could with the original GM panel. This allowed me to position the lower door panel in the bottom of the door without shoving the upper door panel up and off the top of the door. I hope that all makes sense. I did not see any sort of fastening tabs to secure the upper rail of the upper PUI panel to the top edge of the door. But once everything was attached, the hard rails of the PUI panels stay secure to the top of the door.
ok i did misunderstand which holes you elongated. but on mine, when they were all assembled as 1 piece & i went to put them on the door, i didnt notice the panel really being pushed up any, or at least not enough to cause what i described for the top rail. on mine there are 3 tabs about 1/2"x1/2" that you can bend down or they come mostly flush but are cut out by PUI for some reason. i will have to remember this thread for when i remove mine i can post a pic of them & maybe even show how the top rail just kind of flops around if the door is open, seen it on many other cars too over the years too.

maybe PUI changed that top rail somewhat to fix or help the top rail fitment because i dont see & you confirmed those tabs arent there on yours.

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Old 07-14-2022, 08:11 PM
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So here is the passenger door panel. I tried something new this time around.

Maybe you have seen those magic markers that write in metallic silver and gold? My wife happened to have one of those in the kitchen drawer that we had used to write on a champagne bottle as a gift to friends for New Years. I grabbed that Silver Magic Marker and applied it liberally to all of the round plastic holes in the door for the metal push-clips that go on the back of the door panel.

Then I dropped the PUI door panel into the ‘ideal’ position with no clips attached - and pressed the panel against all the plastic anchors in the door - that were doused with silver magic marker. That left distinctive silver ‘rings’ on the back of the PUI panel where the clips needed to be centered. That allowed me to lengthen / enlarge a couple of the holes as necessarily to allow me to position the metal clips exactly where the needed to be in order to be centered with the round silver marks left by pressing the new panel against the door.

It worked like a charm. The first ‘test fit’ was perfect with literally no additional monkeying around.

FWIW - I did need to lengthen the round holes along the bottom of the PUI panel into ‘slots’ to allow the anchors and clips for the lower door panel to slide ‘up’ relative to the upper panel. This allowed the plastic pins on the back of the lower door panel fit the holes in the door without shoving the upper door panel up and off the top rail of the door.
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Old 07-14-2022, 08:32 PM
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Only FWIW - on my doors, there is a VERY sturdy bracket that comes off of the door at a 90* angle like an 'L' and there is a 'cup' on the lower door panel with a pair of machine screws that literally screws down onto the metal L bracket. It makes the 'cup' on the lower door panel by far the sturdiest thing to grab onto to pull the door shut. I have to think that is why GM left the soft strap off of the cars with 'standard' interior??
This is true ^^,

but I used Rivnuts in the door. Has been working great. You technically don't really need the tool to install them. Bolt, nut and washer and you can install 'em, and talk about secure?? Last repair on that situation.

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Old 07-15-2022, 07:25 AM
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This is true ^^,

but I used Rivnuts in the door. Has been working great. You technically don't really need the tool to install them. Bolt, nut and washer and you can install 'em, and talk about secure?? Last repair on that situation.
I wish I would have though of this on my prior car with the loose strap. If I do decide to add the straps this time around, this is the way I’m going to attach them.

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Old 07-15-2022, 04:50 PM
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My experience/comment regarding the strap. Without the strap, or actually, even with the strap, people tend to grab the door at the top, with thumb to the inside on the door panel, and 4 fingers over the top, fingertips on the outer door skin.

Over time, it makes waves along the top of the door skin. Look at other cars down the side, from one end of the car or the other, and you will see the waves easily. Look closely at any dark color car, and you will see it at least to some degree.

Even if you are aware, and try not to shut the door that way, there are some, even yourself, will close them that way anyway. (Yell at passengers that do so).

With foresight, you could add a plate to the door inner structure/frame that would prevent that, but that's a pretty serious undertaking.

Grabbing the lower plastic portion found on earlier models can loosen/deform the plastic panel. Can also round out the screw holes.

I don't care for originality, and don't care for the lower plastic piece that the earlier cars have, I would always bang my knee on it. It also takes away from interior space. So I went to later ones.

Problem with later door panels is the arm rest/grab handle combo, the plastic in the grab handle always breaks. The 'map pocket' is pretty useless too. But at least it's easy to change if it breaks. Later repop handles are reinforced in the area they commonly break, which helps some.

I say use the pull, and try to use it (and inform passengers to use it too). But it's kind of six one way, half dozen the other.

EDIT: You should close the door from the outside by using the door handle too.
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Old 07-15-2022, 06:29 PM
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My experience/comment regarding the strap. Without the strap, or actually, even with the strap, people tend to grab the door at the top, with thumb to the inside on the door panel, and 4 fingers over the top, fingertips on the outer door skin.

Over time, it makes waves along the top of the door skin. Look at other cars down the side, from one end of the car or the other, and you will see the waves easily. Look closely at any dark color car, and you will see it at least to some degree.

Even if you are aware, and try not to shut the door that way, there are some, even yourself, will close them that way anyway. (Yell at passengers that do so).

With foresight, you could add a plate to the door inner structure/frame that would prevent that, but that's a pretty serious undertaking.

Grabbing the lower plastic portion found on earlier models can loosen/deform the plastic panel. Can also round out the screw holes.

I don't care for originality, and don't care for the lower plastic piece that the earlier cars have, I would always bang my knee on it. It also takes away from interior space. So I went to later ones.

Problem with later door panels is the arm rest/grab handle combo, the plastic in the grab handle always breaks. The 'map pocket' is pretty useless too. But at least it's easy to change if it breaks. Later repop handles are reinforced in the area they commonly break, which helps some.

I say use the pull, and try to use it (and inform passengers to use it too). But it's kind of six one way, half dozen the other.

EDIT: You should close the door from the outside by using the door handle too.
.

I agree with everything you have said. If this was back in the day when I drove my TA everywhere I needed to be Monday through Friday (with occasional passengers…) and showed her off on Saturday and Sunday, I would no doubt anchor and hang the door pull straps.

But since taking delivery last November, I have had literally one person in the passenger seat one time, once - my wife - and I still open and close car doors for her.

So far I am really diggin’ the ‘strapless’ look for this particular car: not quite as modern as the YO one piece panels with the engine turned inserts - but somehow cleaner and sleeker looking without the pull-straps. I am aware and careful when closing the driver’s door, and the passenger side just doesn't get enough legit day-to-day use to be of concern.

If I ever do add the factory pull straps, I am definitely going the Rivnuts approach. That’s a great way to make these ‘yank proof.’

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