[Tazzz2]

Randy, they had some really cool designers back in the day that weren't handcuffed and hog tied 40 ways to Sunday lol.......There are a lot of really cool cars that offer so much to someone that wants to play with them.

It's kinda funny you mentioned the 67GS,,,,I was talking to my engine builder yesterday and told him that we need to keep our eyes open for the next build....I want to finish the Formula over the next couple of months, then do a repaint on the 73 TA,,,,,,after that I want to do something really different.

[RandyW]

I've always loved the '66-'67 Rivs, make mine black, lowered and 455 Stage1 powered with some 17/18" Smoothie II's.

[Tazzz2]

Sounds nice....when you starting lol

[RandyW]

As soon as I win the lottery!

[RWS]

I agree that spoiler or no spoiler on a Formula is a matter or personal taste, even if it is a '70.

When I bought my '70 Formula in early 1974, the first thing I installed on it was a rear spoiler. I thought then (and still do) that the rear end looked way better with it, and could care less that it wasn't a factory option until the next model year.

[stuta]

Just reading this thread brings back some memories for me. Long before it was "wrong" to modify these firebirds, i took my fathers 72 esprit and changed everything about it. I put a formula hood on it, a rear spoiler, all the early t/a wheel flairs, and put in a complete 79 t/a camel interior in the car....dash and all. This was back in 1979, and i even put a set of gold snowflakes on it. The esprit was brasilia gold. I had it painted midnight blue metallic. I was going to cut in a 76 shaker in the formula hood after seeing that movie, Corvette Summer. (anyone remember that one?) But i decided not to.
I put in a 1970 GP 400 engine and the 400 turbo trans. That car flew!
I have a 73 formula now that needs restoring. When i look at that car, my mind wonders and i can see myself making a remake of my old car...then again, i don't think i'd have the heart to mess with an original formula.
Thanks for the flash back

[2manyT/A'S]

That's TOTALLY what it was like back then!
The original design 70-73 Firebird was 7 years old & STALE by then.
Repro seat covers were NOT available,but NICE late 70's interiors were PLENTIFULL in the wreckers.
My first EARLY T/A (70 1/2) was converted to a 79 WS6 rear disc brake set-up in 1982 & we ran it on 15 x 8" Argent Snowflakes with outline white letter tires.(NO,I didn't TOSS the JW'S,they were LONG GONE before I got it.The standard issue (big & little) RUSTY cragars were on it when I got it,along with a RED shag carpet parcel shelf & SHINGLES over the rear window)
Did I mention the AIR SHOCKS & TONS of BONDO in the rear quarters???

[The Boss]

Hahaha - this is a funny thread.

Ok, I'll chime in - My 77 Formula (first car) that I bought in 1983 ended up with a 79 velour interior in it in replacement of the original blue vinyl, blue shag carpeting on the package shelf from my neighbor's basement remodel with a set of Alpine 6x9's in it. The motor came from my other neighbor's wrecked 69 GTO and I added a set of air shocks and painted the inside of the scoops and the rear sway bar white.

Car was dark blue - I loved it.

[Tazzz2]

Stuta....My 70 is going to be painted Admiralty Blue (Navy metallic) with a white interior (tuxedo interior),,,,as a matter of fact, I commissioned the interior Thursday and can't wait to see the results in roughly 4-6 weeks...

[RWS]

Yeah, well, I admit to doing a bit more than adding a spoiler on the back.

I actually took off the Firebird end caps, put on a set from a Camaro, had the whole spoiler molded in, and then added Trans Am style rear wheel flares that were also molded inl.

Up front, I took off and sold my functional Formula hood, put on a steel one with a big Corvette style rear facing scoop that was molded in. I even stripped it just like a Z-28!

Big tires on slotted aluminum wheels, and then American Racing 5 spokes, and then gold laced Entei aluminum wheels.

As for the interior, how does black leather trim with red crushed velvet inserts sound? And real walnut for the dash and door panel inserts, along with speakers everywhere.

Even cut a hole in the right rear quarter for a power antenna, and painted the engine red to go with the color of the body.

You might be relived to hear that the car looks pretty much stock now, save for an after market chin spoiler, that early style rear spoiler, and the color ('74 Corvette red, which is just about the brightest red there is).

The point, I guess, is that the car looked the way I wanted it to back in the 70's and 80's, and now looks the way I want it to, as well.

[unruhjonny]

I'll admit that I did adda spoiler to my '70 back in 1996... then decided I liked it more w/o the spoiler... I decided that I liked the 70-73 cars with the more sedate "grandma-car" look...

What I think some people miss reguarding the 1970 L78 Formula's over the 1971-1973 L78 Formulas, is the world of a difference in performance.
It doesn't help that the pilot W66/L78 Formula doing rounds for the magazines back in 1970 was an M40 & A/C car.
I also don't get why people regurgitate that a #13/#12 headed 1970 400's can't be run on pump gas - I have read it so much over at CP, that I have to ignore it.
One's ability to run a 1970 400 (regaurdless of if its an L78 or L74) depends on if the heads have been milled & how big the combustion chamber is... believe it or not, but I was able to run pump gas in my YZ (c/w #12 heads) for a decade without issue...
If I were to blueprint a 1970 L78/L74 I definatly will not argue that regular pump gas would be insufficient; but for heads casted with combustion chambers in the 72-85cc range - it is very possible to run on pump gas.

In the end, I have no doubt that because of some of the unique items specific to the 1970 model year, in addition to the huge differnce in performance between 1970 and post 1970 400's, that the 1970 L78 Formula 400's will come to being recognised as being worth substancially more than latter L78 powered cars... I believe this WILL have a profound impact on resale of all legit 1970 Formulas ~ regaurdless of if the modification is done tastefully or not, an unmodified or numbers correct car will be worth more...

I have no problems with anyone who decideds to modify their '70 Formula, that just makes the remaining un-screwed-with cars that much more valuble...

Were I wanting to modify a car by changing the engine/drivetrain or interior/exterior colours, I'd opt to buy a base or Esprit, and modify it, becasue you'll see less negativity from modifying an otherwise rare & desirable car - or at least start with a 1971-1974 L30/M38 Formula and "upgrade" from there.

It's the same as what I spoke to a local gent about several years ago - this guy had a very nice 1974 (red on black) L75 T/A... he swapped in a built up 454 and was expressing disappointment with some of the negativity he had recieved becuase he "upgraded" his engine... he had a VERY nice car, and the engine swap was very nice - but regaurless of IF it was faster than his original L75, he changed his car how he wanted it (and thought it was better because of this)... but this cahnge would/will have a profound impact on if/when he should come to selling the car.

[stuta]

Ahhhh, i feel much better now that i know that i was not alone with my firebird custom!
I forgot to mention that before i did my drastic rebuild of the firebird, i did some quick "cool" touches. Yes, i had put a gold shag rug in the rear speaker area with 6 x 9 triaxles and a kenwood 8 track with an amp. I think that's the reason my hearing is a little off these days. I had cragar rims all around with some wide L60-14 tires on the rear with air shocks. I still have some photos of that car just before i sold it to my college buddy up in MI. It only took him a month to smack the car into a tree. Made me sick.

[Formula 400 74]

All the "closet customizers" are coming out ... this photo is from 1976 - Doug Thorley headers hooked to the sidepipes, Gabriel Hi-Jackers in back, package tray covered in red fur (fur mind you, not carpet), console covered in red crushed velvet, pillow made out of red crushed velvet with my girlfriend's name embroidered on it ... sheesh I'm not kidding. Glad I don't have real good photos of the interior.

I'm a little retro minded with my car now, but I'm not doing the sidepipes / fur / crushed velvet stuff again!

Greg

[RandyW]

I built a few molded in wheel flares and some L88 hood scoops in my day, no shag carpet unless it came in the car, which some did. I never got the side pipe bug, thank goodness!

[unruhjonny]

Ha!

Ok, did you ever burn youreslf on the sidepipes? (or were they just for show??)

I've heard that burning one's self was the big hazzard of side pipes...

My dad had a 1972 Firebird (base/350) back in 1975 ~ did the L88 hood, jacked up the back, cragar five spokes... the real funny thing, is that I don't think he did a single thing to the engine (I would hope that he at least changed it to a 4bbl)
I have a couple pictures of it... it does look nice...

[Formula 400 74]

[QUOTE=unruhjonny]Ha!

Ok, did you ever burn youreslf on the sidepipes? (or were they just for show??)

I've heard that burning one's self was the big hazzard of side pipes...
QUOTE]

I didn't, but my brother had a Z28 with similar pipes, and I remember hearing his girlfriend's right calf go "hiss" the first time she got in with shorts on ... I reckon she didn't mind too much, they're still married.

[stuta]

Hey formula 400 74, i feel like i'm in my HS. parking lot looking at that photo of your 74! It's funny, i used to be into sidepipes on everything, but i never put them on my 72 back in the day...came close though.
I remember when my father puchased my 72 esprit. When we went into the Pontiac showroom, there was a 72 t/a sitting right in the middle of the floor. It was white with blue interior. It was a 4-speed also. I tried to talk my father into that car, but that wasn't happening. I almost got him into a real formula, but he didn't like any kind of scoops...bummer. I had no idea how rare that t/a was till years later. My folks always purchased Pontiacs. Anytime my parents took their cars in for service, i went with them and checked out the new cars. That dealership always had some kind of hot firebird on the floor or in the service department.
I was only 12 when the esprit was new. By the time i got my hands on it, my father had driven it every day, all year. Snow tires and all. Then my sister drove it her senior year in HS (1975). By the time i got the car in late 76, it had seen better days to say the least. Those cars didn't hold up well to NJ winters. I learned alot working on that f-bird!

[Matt T]

I don't speak up often, but I had to on this one.

My '70 Formula 400 already had American racing rims, air shocks, and a replacement 71 YX block (2bbl) and #96 heads with the original intake and 4bbl thrown on top. The hood openings were cut out, but it was not a ram air car. I was most aggravated by the engine loss.
I added a second non-original repaint including rear spoiler (late model) and a jcwhitney T/A clone front spoiler. I also cut the dash and rear tray to fit a pull out radio and 6x9 speakers. It was 1988 and I was happy to have a car that was different. In 1991 I also changed it from TH400 to 4-speed. I kept all the original parts I took off, but with the engine gone, the "damage" was already done for original value. I'm pretty sure the doors were changed out too, since my locks don't match the ignition and the lower door panels look like '72 (one piece w/2 pockets and no separate arm rest pad), but I didn't figure this out until recently.

Next incarnation will lose the spoilers and go original color, but the 4-speed will stay. Repro wheels and maybe Wide Ovals would be nice. I would also take a repro ram air setup, higher compression stock or aluminum heads, a posi chuck and better gears in the open factory 12 bolt, but I'm not picky.

I would love to have an original untouched formula w/ram air, but I would love just as much some time and money to just enjoy what I am lucky enough to already own.

[unruhjonny]

Matt - numbers correct is next best to numbers nmatching... and it's still possible to find numbers corret drivetrains for your Formula...

My cousin sold a complete (carb to pan) 1970/YS-400 just over a year ago.. and 1970 YS engines aren't too tough to come by.

I bought my car with a non-original drivetrain, and the hood cut open - this didn't stop me from aqquiring parts to make it correct (bought a correct code & correct date code engine a little while ago).

Since the most common 1970 Formulas are the L78/TH400 cars, I'd wager that if built correctly, retaining a 4spd in your car shouldn't hurt your car's value...

Just my two cents.

[Tazzz2]

Matt the Ram air III cars are very rare and cool,,,most of us would like to have an all original car somewhere deep down inside like that I'd guess....That said, personalizing a car that is not a super rare collectible is also very cool and fun. Enjoy the car and weigh the advise offered here along with you desires as the advise is well intentioned by all.