[Ron Landis]

'68 Firebird ragtop Sprints with a clutch were built?

[Jeff Hamlin]

In my notes I have 18,494 TOTAL OHC 6 Powered Firebirds Built for 1968.
With 4,662 of them being 4bbl and of that 657 were Convertibles.
No further breakdown known at time of recording. These notes are at least 10 years old.

[Ron Landis]

that helps!

[lancesjudge]

Here's a little more with temp/Lemans and 69s thrown in. Interesting how different the transmission numbers are from gtos.

[Diego]

....

[north]

Sprints always had a pricing problem, they cost more than the stronger 350 2bbl so adding a pricey 4 speed must have been a deal killer for most buyers.

[lancesjudge]

north, i agree 100% plus a bad case of timing, maybe the worst. if they released that motor in 73 or 74 they probably couldnt have made them fast enough.

[north]

I also read somewhere that the hood line of the 70 bird would not permit the OHC. They also had a not great rep in terms of reliability or service cost, and these were important considerations for the six hole buyer.

[Jeff Hamlin]

If you look into the marketing of the OHC 6 you'll notice they really didn't seem to know were to market it.
On one side it was geared toward the "economy minded" Great plan when HP was king and gas was cheap
And then there is the Euro segment were they pushed the sports car feel with the luxury car looks and it just fell flat.
They were aiming for the young upcoming family's, Collage crowd and Fleet managers none of which either had the money or wanted to spend it on a 6.

As stated timing was/is everything and the project was killed way to soon, but remember this had been an active project since 1964 and never really hit the mark. It was to costly to keep going and the faithful less costly OHV 6 came back out to play.
What really surprises me is that they never gave the OHC another go as the gas/oil wars/shortages intensified and technologically improved.

But that's OK I'll keep on Cammin till I can't Cam no more

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by lancesjudge

north, i agree 100% plus a bad case of timing, maybe the worst. if they released that motor in 73 or 74 they probably couldnt have made them fast enough.

But by then everything had been so detuned the 10.5:1 ratio would have been gone away with and more than likely no sprints would have been sold either due to the Premium fuel needed. Regardless the Pontiac OHC was far far ahead of its time.

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin

If you look into the marketing of the OHC 6 you'll notice they really didn't seem to know were to market it.
On one side it was geared toward the "economy minded" Great plan when HP was king and gas was cheap
And then there is the Euro segment were they pushed the sports car feel with the luxury car looks and it just fell flat.
They were aiming for the young upcoming family's, Collage crowd and Fleet managers none of which either had the money or wanted to spend it on a 6.

As stated timing was/is everything and the project was killed way to soon, but remember this had been an active project since 1964 and never really hit the mark. It was to costly to keep going and the faithful less costly OHV 6 came back out to play.
What really surprises me is that they never gave the OHC another go as the gas/oil wars/shortages intensified and technologically improved.

But that's OK I'll keep on Cammin till I can't Cam no more

When I've talked with my family about those days they tell me that they had zero clues of what the OHC was or why it was such a great engine. All my father knew was that my mother loved the car because of it's looks and that it was a convertible. They had two little kids and this was their choice in buying a "safer" vehicle lol! It was my mother's car (thankfully) and she babied this thing. Took very good care of it and hardly ever drove since it was mostly a toy. When we went places my father drove his ginormous Cadillac with us in the back so the FB sat in the garage.

Neither of them still understand the OHC even though I have explained it time and time again. They are unaware that their engines have a lot fo this tech in their cars today. All they know is how to put gas in and pres the pedals.

I don't think the consumer grasped what the OHC really was and he benefits. With the low number of sales its no wonder why the prices were so high. Everyone wanted those huge V8's and the little OHC just faded into the background. Funny how things change.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

Regardless the Pontiac OHC was far far ahead of its time.

How was it far ahead of its time?

[north]

the original owner of my Sprint explained how he came to buy it:

His dad told him that he'd buy him a new car if he did really well finishing high school. He did and he enrolled to UCSD, but then his dad dropped the bombshell on him that he couldn't get a V8! Being a Ford family he was dismayed when he looked at the horsepower ratings of the six banger Mustangs so he went shopping for other brands. When he saw that the Pontiac 6 could deliver 50% more power than any other six he made his decision. He drove the car cross country to San Diego (from upstate NY). He sold it in San Diego when he graduated and flew home. Perhaps he wasn't that enthused?

The second owner kept it until 2010 when I bought it, I guess he was the real Cammer!

[lancesjudge]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

But by then everything had been so detuned the 10.5:1 ratio would have been gone away with and more than likely no sprints would have been sold either due to the Premium fuel needed. Regardless the Pontiac OHC was far far ahead of its time.

i agree on about the premium fuel/10.5:1 ratio being an issue but pontiac could have detuned it just like the 455SD was. just saying.
Diego, in regards to ahead of its time, the big thing is it was the 1st mass produced OHC belt driven engine. the jeep built an OHC earlier but was chain driven. now 50 yrs later it may not seem that far advanced as everyone else copied the belt drive in the early 70s but pontiac had canceled the six at the end of 69 before anyone else even came out with it.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by lancesjudge

Diego, in regards to ahead of its time, the big thing is it was the 1st mass produced OHC belt driven engine.

What about the OHC engines available before the Pontiac?

[Jeff Hamlin]

Yes there are several OHC engines before Pontiac's and many where euro,
which was DeLorean's passion. However Pontiac did achieve several First with theirs;

First U.S. Production overhead cam engine in a passenger Car.
First U.S. Belt driven camshaft in an American production engine.
First U.S. Production six cylinder to feature automatic zero lash valve train adjustment.
First U.S. Production engine to utilize hollow-flank cam lobe design without a need for roller followers.

So even though some of this is a play on words Pontiac was ahead of the times (In the US)

[Diego]

Didn't Crosley have a OHC?

[Jeff Hamlin]

Yes but either not a full production use and/or they didn't stake a claim??

[Diego]

Well, Crosleys were regular production vehicles, and staking a claim or not is irrelevant to who was the first.

[Jeff Hamlin]

Originally Posted by Diego

Well, Crosleys were regular production vehicles, and staking a claim or not is irrelevant to who was the first.

Those are Pontiac's Claims not mine, They won the achievement awards,
so I'll stick with Pontiac