[64speed]

Well the speedmaster heads apparently debuted at the SEMA show because they were featured in Car Craft this month. They are only available in 72cc though.

[Schurkey]

Yay. More Chinese crap.

[mgarblik]

Well, here's your apples to chop sticks comparison: Butler Performance, out of the box 72 cc Edelbrock round port heads, hydraulic roller springs?, $2399.95.
(from Butler Performance web site)

Speedmaster Pontiac 72 CC heads, hydraulic roller springs, round port $ 1857.90.
(from Speedmaster web site)

$542.05 a pair less for the Speedmaster heads a set. 23% less for the Chinese heads.

I guess if they perform as well, do what you expect, and don't have issues, you have saved $550.00. If they perform poorly, won't hold a head gasket, drop valves, drop seats, then you know the results. I guess we need 20-30 brave souls to buy a set, try them and report back to see how they do. I doubt any have been installed in Shanghai and put to the test before they hit the market. So someone over here needs to prove them out.

[Sirrotica]

From Ripoff Report:

Purchased a set of Pro Comp aluminum cylinder heads for my big block chevy. After less than 1 hour run time one valve lock failed and sucked a valve into the cylinder destroying the cylinder head , piston , connecting rod and causing extensive damage to the engine block. After 4 days of calling trying to find out what Speedmaster is going to do for me they finally went dark on me and just stopped taking my calls and completely avoided me.
I later found out that this is their standard way of doing business, These guys are nothing but scammers selling crap. They opperate under several aliases and diferent company names. The guy I was dealing with name is Chris Young. Hes one of the ruing leaders and head scammers.
Do yourself a favor and run from these scumba

Sounds like a satisfied customer...……………………………….

I'm thinking he's not going to recommend anyone purchase these heads...…………

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

From Ripoff Report:




Sounds like a satisfied customer...……………………………….

I'm thinking he's not going to recommend anyone purchase these heads...…………

Danny Reegan (Goathead) had a similar experience with his Edelbrock heads back around '04. He had been running his heads for maybe 2 years, always pump gas, never sprayed. His motor started running like crap. Pulled a head, and huge chunk of the chamber had broken off.

He contacted Edelbrock, and they had no concern at all. They did not want to look at the head, pictures or anything. Basically told him "gee, sorry, oh well, not our problem."

[Steve C.]

And similar situations with KRE over the years with quality issues.


.

[JLMounce]

^^^ point being from the above two posts is that quality issues are not completely from off-shore parts. If you want to talk about buy american as it pertains to economics and the benefits of, lets have that discussion. But just because it's american made doesn't mean it's good quality. Just because it's made in china doesn't mean it's poor quality.

Unfortunately until somebody actually ponies up the funds for a set of these and tries them out, then provides some sort of information on them as to how good or bad they may or may not be, it's all speculation. That's the other part of the problem. The internet doesn't provide an unbiased sampling of reviews in most cases. People like the gentleman quoted above have been maligned and so they are doing anything in their power to help their case. Meanwhile, the guy that purchased a set and didn't have any issues is out driving around instead of posting on the internet.

[mgarblik]

Man you guys are just making my case for a decent aftermarket IRON cylinder head!! Only been begging for 15 years. It could be done for 60% the cost of the Chinese heads, hold a gasket better and be made in America. Been using Dart and World iron heads forever on SBC's. Never a failure. Better performance than OE heads for about the cost of properly re-furbishing a set. And they are NEW IRON. Why everyone "feels" they need aluminum heads to make .95-1.0 HP per inch on pump gas just amazes me. With 10 head bolts spread out over allot of deck surface, iron reign's supreme.

[Navy Horn 16]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Man you guys are just making my case for a decent aftermarket IRON cylinder head!!

There isn't any demand for an aftermarket iron head. Stock, workable iron heads are plentiful and cheap, because so many have been replaced with much better aluminum heads.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

I think you should push the button !!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Navy Horn 16

There isn't any demand for an aftermarket iron head. Stock, workable iron heads are plentiful and cheap, because so many have been replaced with much better aluminum heads.

Not wishing to start an argument about demand. But you sound EXACTLY like Vic Edelbrock did when myself, Arnie Beswick and a few others kept badgering him for almost 10 years until he finally authorized a short run of E-heads hoping to just "shut the Pontiac people up" and not take too much of a loss on them. Well, the rest is history as they say. Yes, lousy 50 year old iron Pontiac heads are still out there and cheap. But how about a good set of iron Pontiac heads. Ram Air IV decent castings are quite expensive. So are 455 HO. Heck, even Ram Air III heads which are nothing special are pretty expensive. You could easily cast an iron replacement head that looks stock and flows 250-260 CFM on the intake side for 60% the cost of current aluminum offerings and have the inherent advantages of iron. As far as pushing the button, I am smart enough to realize I don't have the expertise to design, make patterns, produce castings, machine and sell them. But my past experience tells me if we just keep politely asking, and point out the advantages, someone with the knowledge and expertise will make it happen. That's how we got the IA blocks, the Tiger heads, and hundreds of other parts that were not available for our Pontiac's 20 years ago. Copying the Edelbrock head and producing an inferior, (possibly) product in China, does little to move the hobby forward.

[64speed]

I just bought a set of Edelbrock heads worked over by Butler for 2995 plus shipping. I figured that was the best deal I was gonna get. I think Edelbrock is still made in the USA isnt it?

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Not wishing to start an argument about demand. But you sound EXACTLY like Vic Edelbrock did when myself, Arnie Beswick and a few others kept badgering him for almost 10 years until he finally authorized a short run of E-heads hoping to just "shut the Pontiac people up" and not take too much of a loss on them. Well, the rest is history as they say. Yes, lousy 50 year old iron Pontiac heads are still out there and cheap. But how about a good set of iron Pontiac heads. Ram Air IV decent castings are quite expensive. So are 455 HO. Heck, even Ram Air III heads which are nothing special are pretty expensive. You could easily cast an iron replacement head that looks stock and flows 250-260 CFM on the intake side for 60% the cost of current aluminum offerings and have the inherent advantages of iron. As far as pushing the button, I am smart enough to realize I don't have the expertise to design, make patterns, produce castings, machine and sell them. But my past experience tells me if we just keep politely asking, and point out the advantages, someone with the knowledge and expertise will make it happen. That's how we got the IA blocks, the Tiger heads, and hundreds of other parts that were not available for our Pontiac's 20 years ago. Copying the Edelbrock head and producing an inferior, (possibly) product in China, does little to move the hobby forward.

I agree with all of this but the last statement. Any additional product that comes to market for the Pontiac community is good. It may be a copy of the E-head, but it's price point is noticeably less. If we make an assumption that the speedmaster head is "okay" that 550 in savings may help more people keep a pontiac engine in their pontiac.

If the head ends up being ****, it will fail and nobody will ever buy them. If it ends up being better than okay, it might actually force edelbrock to bring down the pricing on their heads and that would also be good for the Pontiac community.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

I agree with all of this but the last statement. Any additional product that comes to market for the Pontiac community is good. It may be a copy of the E-head, but it's price point is noticeably less. If we make an assumption that the speedmaster head is "okay" that 550 in savings may help more people keep a pontiac engine in their pontiac.

If the head ends up being ****, it will fail and nobody will ever buy them. If it ends up being better than okay, it might actually force edelbrock to bring down the pricing on their heads and that would also be good for the Pontiac community.

Good points! We need that feedback from actual users. That $500.00 + difference if the heads are truly comparable, will drive sales that direction. Everybody wants a deal, it's natural. The heads are out there now. Someone is going to bolt them on and give them hell. Then we will have our answer.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I just bought a set of Edelbrock heads worked over by Butler for 2995 plus shipping. I figured that was the best deal I was gonna get. I think Edelbrock is still made in the USA isnt it?

Edelbrock has a megabuck aluminum casting facility, state of art...

World Products was told for years that casting iron heads would cost dearly to develop, and a bunch of other crap.....They still sell iron small and big block Chevy heads.

Anyone here know anyone at World Products??? Throw the same line on them that Arnie did on Vic???

[Nobuddy]

I don't see how an iron head could possibly be done for 60% of these Speedmaster heads. My arithmetic says that would be about $560 each which is less than a good small block chevy head. But it would be nice to have the choice of something like a repop RA 1V head.

[Sirrotica]

Again olds heads are $700 less expensive than Pontiac heads, same as edelbrock.

[Steve C.]

Some will always like the weight savings of a aluminium cylinder head. That and a lot easier to do port work with aluminium material.


.

[64speed]

I went with aluminum because for one all I had was a block and for two by the time I bought good known heads, had them ported and rebuilt I would be 3/4 of the way to the Edelbrock. I could have saved a little money going with them out of the box but I heard too many stories of inconsistent chamber volume etc so I paid for “ The Butler Treatment” too bad they said it would take 8-10 weeks to get them

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

I don't see how an iron head could possibly be done for 60% of these Speedmaster heads. My arithmetic says that would be about $560 each which is less than a good small block chevy head. But it would be nice to have the choice of something like a repop RA 1V head.

Summit sells SBC complete iron NEW heads for $349.00 each. So $600.00 each for a Pontiac head shouldn't be way off IMO. A Dart or World SBC head is around $600.00 each. But I hope we are not trying to compare those quality brands to Speedmaster? Yes, the weight savings of aluminum vs iron may be a consideration for a few out there, and fortunately they have over a half dozen good aluminum heads for Pontiac to buy. Same with the porting and repair issues of iron. I agree completely. However, I envision these heads as "service replacement" iron heads, not race heads. This is the street section. I won't hijack this thread any further. I am pretty passionate about the need for iron replacements. Sorry for the derailment. Carry on.