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Old 03-03-2022, 10:44 PM
ta man ta man is online now
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Originally Posted by Gach View Post
KRE SD port heads, just curious are they KRE d-ports high ports or E-heads. D-port or round port done by SD
D ports..we're originally his 290cfm heads

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #22  
Old 03-03-2022, 11:00 PM
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D ports..we're originally his 290cfm heads
The 3:73 definitely going to help, over 3.08. Going to help the 60’s. So there KRE d-ports not e-head D-ports. This just me. I’d bring total timing all in by 1500 rpms. The Pro Systems advantage, going to be adjustability of idle air bleeds and high end air bleeds, of cruse figuring out what it’s going to like for high end air bleeds is going to be a challenge. With out tuning it on the dyno.

This might help, get some base runs in, then go up on high end air until it slows down, then go back. You might be surprise. One of the many things I’m sure you’ll play with.

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Old 03-04-2022, 01:17 AM
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I've not been able to accomplish that task, the "timing all in" by 1500rpm's using a factory HEI without problems with some of it being in at idle speed. This causes all sort of idle tuning issues with a street engine, and one of these engines with the KRE heads and efficient combustion chambers isn't going to show you anything dumping all the timing on it right off idle anyhow.....IMHO......

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73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
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Old 03-04-2022, 06:39 AM
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I've not been able to accomplish that task, the "timing all in" by 1500rpm's using a factory HEI without problems with some of it being in at idle speed. This causes all sort of idle tuning issues with a street engine, and one of these engines with the KRE heads and efficient combustion chambers isn't going to show you anything dumping all the timing on it right off idle anyhow.....IMHO......
Yes that's why I don't run straight manifold vacuum..and even running ported I had to watch how much initial I had dialed in..too much and the engine would be all jerky and have a skip..and not a smooth transition into gear from drive. I've always tuned for a strong stoplight idle..not a free revving garage park idle. Another thing I check is once the timing is all in there is not any timing creep at higher rpms. It's all trial and error though..find the sweet spots..takes a while.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
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Old 03-04-2022, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Gach View Post
The 3:73 definitely going to help, over 3.08. Going to help the 60’s. So there KRE d-ports not e-head D-ports. This just me. I’d bring total timing all in by 1500 rpms. The Pro Systems advantage, going to be adjustability of idle air bleeds and high end air bleeds, of cruse figuring out what it’s going to like for high end air bleeds is going to be a challenge. With out tuning it on the dyno.

This might help, get some base runs in, then go up on high end air until it slows down, then go back. You might be surprise. One of the many things I’m sure you’ll play with.
Thanks for the advice..my Holley also has the high and low as well. Once I get everything else dialed in..I'm so far behind on this tune . Plus the driver needs to get some better skills.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #26  
Old 03-04-2022, 07:15 AM
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"Yes that's why I don't run straight manifold vacuum..and even running ported I had to watch how much initial I had dialed in..too much and the engine would be all jerky and have a skip..and not a smooth transition into gear from drive"

EXACTLY! That goes on deaf ears for sure. My engine doesn't like, want, need or respond well to a lot of timing at idle. Even with the initial at 10 degrees if I add 10 more from the vacuum advance via manifold vacuum it starts to "skip" just a tad and much more than that it bucks and kicks a bit.

This simply happens because of how efficient they are, higher compression with well chosen camshafts in them and excellent combustion chamber shapes. I'd add hear that the "all the timing in by 1500rpm's" is old-school thinking but still alive and well today. I'm actually happy about it, because I've been paid a LOT of money to put stock or much slower timing curves in these engines for quite a few years now. Even though I retired last month I'm still going to do a couple Saturdays a month custom tuning. 9 out of 10 times when these troubled vehicles are brought here among the fixes will be to remove the cheap-ars spring/weight kits and put closer to stock timing curves in them. Then I'll hook the VA back up, go into the carb and when the owner comes back from their first test drive they will be grinning from ear to ear........right up until the moment I unload their wallet!......LOL......Cliff

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Old 03-04-2022, 05:42 PM
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Another thing I check is once the timing is all in there is not any timing creep at higher rpms.
Smart move, thats so offen Missed.

You definitely have a lot of self-confidence, the tuning part we learn from each other.

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Unload their wallet.. is that like taking out second mortgage.LOL I’m sure once you’re done tuning, getting it right. The grinning from ear to ear especially after them playing around for some time months, they want give you a good tip. Let me buy you a coffee.

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Old 03-04-2022, 06:12 PM
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Yep, you can see that they FINALLY are going to get to enjoy their labor of love. Keep in mind that by the time something makes it here for "custom tuning" or to get it running up to par for the combo rest assured the owner has exhausted all other possibilities. For sure ALL his friends/beer drinking buddies, local "gurus", shops still around that work on older cars, even the wife's boyfriend have had a stab at it. The record to date is 1800 miles one way, but most come from 200 miles or less. I love that sort of work, you get to meet some nice folks and see some really nice cars!.........

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73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
  #29  
Old 03-05-2022, 03:49 PM
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Man for a308 gear thats a killer sixty foot time.
Good job with your combo and I'll be listening for more results.
GT

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Old 03-05-2022, 05:47 PM
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Man for a308 gear thats a killer sixty foot time.
Good job with your combo and I'll be listening for more results.
GT
Yes and haven't been close for 3 years..nothing under 1.6..due to the unknown trans issues. I spent one fall basically trying to tune the new carb to 60 foot..yet all the time it was the transmission.
I 've seen similar combos go under 1.5 for a 60 foot at the same weight. So there is a lot of potential left in the combo..so it will be interesting to see how much et was loss with the bad transmission.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #31  
Old 03-06-2022, 11:09 AM
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One year when I had the roller 455 in the 78 TA the old stockish rebuilt TH350 finally gave up. The convertor had trash in it and the only one I had was built to be looser for my 400. A new fresh TH350 with good parts and that convertor I picked up 0.75 seconds! Convertor was loose and stalled to 5000 but it 60 ft'd like heck!

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  #32  
Old 03-06-2022, 04:50 PM
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One year when I had the roller 455 in the 78 TA the old stockish rebuilt TH350 finally gave up. The convertor had trash in it and the only one I had was built to be looser for my 400. A new fresh TH350 with good parts and that convertor I picked up 0.75 seconds! Convertor was loose and stalled to 5000 but it 60 ft'd like heck!

That seems like a huge gain but compared to my lame 11.0/123/124mph slips with a 1.6 60ft from last year. I should be picking up 4 to 5 tenths. The unknown is the UCC convertor, I tried it a few years ago..didn't 60 foot as well and slipped up top...but that was with the 308 gears and most likely the trans was hurt almost at that exact time.
If I remember correctly the last time you mentioned a big gain was with larger tailpipes or dropping tailpipes...which I was doing at the time and the result was an easy gain of power.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #33  
Old 03-06-2022, 05:20 PM
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So here are some time slips in case someone is wondering why all the speculation on et. It also gives a time frame. 2019 is missing I installed the UCC convertor late that year and only 2 track days with dismal results and high convertor slippage in drive and loss of 60 foot..I blamed the convertor at the time but may have been the start of transmission issues. I think it ran 11.3/120mph?

2018 10.76/125.64 Holley 950 HP 308 gears 3200 convertor "healthy" trans
2020 10.88/127.13 Pro Systems Carb 308 gears 3200 convertor "not healthy trans? but at the time I thought the carb was giving up the 60 foot time
2021 11.04/125.42 Holley 950 HP 373 gears trans issues
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
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Old 03-06-2022, 07:51 PM
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Yes it was a huge gain we were all shocked when we took it to the track the first time! I think probably split between a good transmission and a loose convertor.

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1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #35  
Old 04-17-2022, 02:21 PM
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I finally found time and nice weather and roads to get the car out for a test drive with the fresh trans and UCC convertor. It feels really good with the UCC convertor. I think my trans was bad for a few years and I must have gotten used to it.

1. Car moves around so easy in 1st and reverse..with very little throttle
2. Bringing the revs up in first against the convertor it will push the tires at about 2500rpm feels tight
3. At about 40mph in drive instant full throttle tach goes to about 3800 to 4000 rpm...but feels very coupled after once the mph catches up to the rpm
4. Transmission works well smooth quick shifts
Overall it reminds me of the driving experience when I had 342 gears and Continental convertor..very smooth and good convertor/gear/engine combo.

The true test will be the dragstrip in a few weeks.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471

Last edited by ta man; 04-17-2022 at 02:26 PM.
  #36  
Old 04-17-2022, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for the update, look forward to track results.

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Old 04-17-2022, 02:49 PM
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Thanks for the update, look forward to track results.
I was so happy just driving the car again! I haven't drove farther then 40 feet from the shop since last September!

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #38  
Old 04-17-2022, 05:23 PM
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2. Bringing the revs up in first against the convertor it will push the tires at about 2500rpm feels tight
So you probably did this with the line lock engaged right. Back tires can move which is different from what I'm asking.

Please no offense in me asking this. I always heard or read Not to do a brake stand and hammer the accelerate. Ant truth to this.? Thanks
I'm like you can't wait. Track opens end of month.

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  #39  
Old 04-17-2022, 05:42 PM
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3800-4000, it’s going to be just about perfect with that 3.73 gear, If I’m remembering right, you went to 3.73 gear. If you can first time out with new trans, try and record first to second shift, rpm drop. See how much it drops, 500-1000- or 1500 rpms. oops see what rpm it drops to, 3500-4000.

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Last edited by Gach; 04-17-2022 at 06:01 PM.
  #40  
Old 04-17-2022, 05:56 PM
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There’s a few Myths on figuring out convertor stall. The most common not using line lock, pump up breaks real hard, then bring up the rpms until the breaks won’t hold the car anymore ( car starts moving) keep your eyes on tach see when that occurs. That’s you stall at that rpms. In other words if rpms are at say 3500 and it’s still holding car, but starts moving at 3800 rpms your stall is closer to 3800.

I’m sure you already know this but sometimes it helps to refresh one’s memory

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