[Cliff R]

"Cliff you have always ran 255/60's?"


No, I ran 275's for quite a few years but they didn't fit well under the car once I got the suspension dialed in and car lowered in the rear to where it needed to be. On factory 7" rims they were 1/8" from the shocks and I had to "trim" the fenders or they rubbed there as well.

I switched to 255's around 2005-2006 which were 2" shorter. This gave me more clearance and on 7" rims just as much tread width on the pavement.

It left just as hard with about the same 60' times but increased RPM' s in high gear about 400 rpm's. I really didn't see any change in ET or MPH until I installed the "new" 455 in 2009. I also wasted a LOT of time trying to use the taller RPM intake with my Shaker parts only to find out it ran no quicker anyplace than the "modified" 455 HO intake. The RPM didn't 60' quite as well and I was trying to use the original air cleaner lid with a shorter air filter element not realizing that it was killing off some power everyplace. I tried several other intake, carb and spacer combinations but was up against a brick wall trying to fit all that under the hood with the factory parts. The fastest (MPH) runs were going to be with the Tomahawk intake, 1" custom spacer and 4781-2 Holley DP carb. I needed to work with those parts to put the car solidly into the 10's as it was running over 120 MPH even with a "soft" launch around 1.62-.1.64 60'.

I also needed to install a roll bar at the same time to move forward with the car on 1/4 mile tracks. I decided to go another direction with my life and the business instead so gave up on all that and limited testing to 1/8 mile tracks and eventually quit racing the car at all other than a few Friday night test & tune sessions at our local 1/8th mile track.

Anyhow, don't want to use your thread for my history lesson, but I did learn quite a bit about converters as I tested quite a few of them while Continental was still in business. I helped them develop several versions of the basic 10" unit which started showing up with different designations on them. We even came up with a 4400 stall speed version and called it the "poor mans race converter". That is an EXCELLENT unit for the money and locks up really tight compared to many converters that flash that high on the launch.

What I found out is that up against 3.42 gears a high stall converter doesn't provide all the benefits that it should be. They really need 4.10-4.56 gears with 28-30" tires. This gets the engine RPM's up higher much sooner and you are into 2nd gear and right back up to the shift point without "lugging" the engine and having the poorer coupled efficiency work against you. That is why it is difficult to see all the improvements of the UCC converter against the Continental. The UCC is probably a fine piece but it's not going to really shine until you put some taller gears out back and start "buzzing" the engine up higher and sooner and then right back up to the shift point again.

You'll loose some of the street manners that are found with 3.08 gears and tighter converter as the "race" set-up just doesn't provide all those benefits. That was the biggest part of my decision to not move forward with my car as it was so nice to drive with 3.42's and a really tight converter, still pull into our local track, not even shut the car off, lower the tire pressure to 18psi and click off bottom 7 second 1/8th mile runs in the 95-97mph range. Then i'd come back to the pits, open the hood, folks would take a gander at the factory intake, carb and Shaker parts. The looks I'd get were "priceless" and got even better when they started asking questions about the combination...........

[ta man]

Thanks Cliff, I can relate quite well to your reply. I don't mind the history lesson... tell it while you still can remember lol..I still have the HPP magazines that had your car as a KRE test mule when the KRE heads just came out. I think that was when my interest really peaked with what can be done with a street engine.
I'm hoping I don't go down this convertor rabbit hole..some of us guys don't have lifts.

[Cliff R]

I try to educate readers (while I can still remember LOL!) even if it's on your thread it applies to what both you and others are doing.

Looking forward to more testing, keep up the good work!......

r

[Cliff R]

I saw "peak" torque mentioned someplace.

The last one of these engine I was associated with (built the carb for it) dyno'd at 552hp and 604tq. Peak HP was at 5800rpm's and torque at 3900rpms........

[Skip Fix]

One thing I found at least for a track car was the stall was the big deal for 60 ft and time, If it slips unless you are setting mph records who cares if the car goes a lot faster.

When my first E head roller 455 high 11s finally wore out the stock rebuilt TH 350 we were going to just swap it out and keep the 4500 stall convertor I had been using(originally behind the RAIV 400). Convertor had crap in it and the only one I had around was an A-1 that was for the RAIV motor. Swapped it and a fresh well built TH350 and the car picked up darned near 0.75 seconds and mph! 60 ft's 1.5s with a 9" slick. Got into 10.90s @123 in good air. Doing the math it was slipping some on big end more than "ideal", would rev to 3000 just pulling on the trailer! Was not too bad to drive on the street but had 4.10s. I know some of the SS and Stocker guys don't care too much about slippage as long as time slip is better. Granted driving to the track or on the street a lot is different.

"Street " pumpgas 455 with a 10" convertor ran the same ET and MPH but could only 60 ft in the 1.6s. Just swapped in 3.42s so we'll see what it does with those.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

One thing I found at least for a track car was the stall was the big deal for 60 ft and time, If it slips unless you are setting mph records who cares if the car goes a lot faster.

When my first E head roller 455 high 11s finally wore out the stock rebuilt TH 350 we were going to just swap it out and keep the 4500 stall convertor I had been using(originally behind the RAIV 400). Convertor had crap in it and the only one I had around was an A-1 that was for the RAIV motor. Swapped it and a fresh well built TH350 and the car picked up darned near 0.75 seconds and mph! 60 ft's 1.5s with a 9" slick. Got into 10.90s @123 in good air. Doing the math it was slipping some on big end more than "ideal", would rev to 3000 just pulling on the trailer! Was not too bad to drive on the street but had 4.10s. I know some of the SS and Stocker guys don't care too much about slippage as long as time slip is better. Granted driving to the track or on the street a lot is different.

"Street " pumpgas 455 with a 10" convertor ran the same ET and MPH but could only 60 ft in the 1.6s. Just swapped in 3.42s so we'll see what it does with those.

So what I want is both. Torquewar (Andy) who has a similiar engine ,slightly more weight ,uses the 3200 10 inch Continental and has been as quick as 1.49 (I believe) in the 60 foot and normally low 1.5's when hooking. This is with 342 gears. So I think I shouldn't lose anything in the 60 foot ..car should 60 foot 1.5.

What gets me is with a quicker 60 foot the car only basically matched the previous best 1/8th mile and ran slower then the previous best in the quarter mile. That doesn't make sense other then the convertor slipping too much after or before 1/2 track. It doesn't pull the last 400 feet. Last year even with the bad transmission that caused bad 60 foots the Continental would still be pulling at the stripe.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by ta man

Last year even with the bad transmission that caused bad 60 foots the Continental would still be pulling at the stripe.

Any guess how much the bad trans was slowing you down?

[slowbird]

TA Man you have any idea what the most hp a combo like yours has made? At 3700lbs it'll take a decent amout of hp to go 10.5s or REALLY good track/air conditions to assist you. I think you can do it but finding some more power would help make things easier. Just my opinion.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Any guess how much the bad trans was slowing you down?

A tenth in the 60 foot.so at least 2 tenths maybe more.
But maybe much more we will see when the Continental is back in.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by slowbird

TA Man you have any idea what the most hp a combo like yours has made? At 3700lbs it'll take a decent amout of hp to go 10.5s or REALLY good track/air conditions to assist you. I think you can do it but finding some more power would help make things easier. Just my opinion.

I'm pretty sure Dave said he has seen 610hp from a similar combo. More power is always good..but just trying to fix what I have first. I was very happy that my 60 foot is better then ever and the car hooks and actually pulls the wheels..I was lucky with the suspension settings. Next is put the Continental convertor back in and not lose 60 foot time and drop a tenth or 2 down the track. Then start to whittle away the et..it will come..

[AG]

Using the Hp formula it would take 632 Hp to go 10.5 s at 3700 lb race weight.

[Cliff R]

"A tenth in the 60 foot.so at least 2 tenths maybe more."

It's a bit more from what I've seen with that sort of thing.

Leaving HARD is the key to quicker ET's. Ever been at an event were a really fast car left hard then broke about 1/4 of the way down the track and still coasted thru with a mid 10 second ET?

After a really hard launch and good 60's the engine becomes a SMALLER part of the BIG plan...........FWIW.......

[Skip Fix]

The 10" Continental in my 78 is tight enough it lugs the motor down at idle in gear-enough to change the AFR.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by AG

Using the Hp formula it would take 632 Hp to go 10.5 s at 3700 lb race weight.

I don't think the HP formula takes into account all the variables, rolling resistance,as Cliff stated traction and launch, drivetrain losses, wind resistance..etc

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

The 10" Continental in my 78 is tight enough it lugs the motor down at idle in gear-enough to change the AFR.

My UCC and Continental both do the same. That is why my idle mixture in park is always slightly rich..I want that strong idle in gear against the brake in gear so I add a little fuel.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"A tenth in the 60 foot.so at least 2 tenths maybe more."

It's a bit more from what I've seen with that sort of thing.

Leaving HARD is the key to quicker ET's. Ever been at an event were a really fast car left hard then broke about 1/4 of the way down the track and still coasted thru with a mid 10 second ET?

After a really hard launch and good 60's the engine becomes a SMALLER part of the BIG plan...........FWIW.......

That is why I know I'm giving up et down the track when the quicker 60 ft barely is quicker in the 1/8th mile something is up. Here is my best slip from 2018 and the quick 60 foot slip from Saturday afternoon. Sorry they are sideways!

[johnta1]

I would say the weather conditions were better on the quicker run?

[Dragncar]

[QUOTE=Cliff R;6339295]"A tenth in the 60 foot.so at least 2 tenths maybe more."

It's a bit more from what I've seen with that sort of thing.

Leaving HARD is the key to quicker ET's. Ever been at an event were a really fast car left hard then broke about 1/4 of the way down the track and still coasted thru with a mid 10 second ET?

After a really hard launch and good 60's the engine becomes a SMALLER part of the BIG plan...........FWIW.......[/QUOTE

Exactly. The 60 foot is most of drag racing. Its the key. Reaction time and 60 foot means you go rounds and lay down some nice numbers for your combo.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I would say the weather conditions were better on the quicker run?

Weather was close enuf for a nul difference..if one looks at the only the 60 foots ,the 330's and the 1/8ths...you can see there was no real difference in the 330 and the 1/8th...which doesn't make sense when the 60ft is so much lower.
I know this is the street section and I'm splitting hairs between slips and it doesn't really matter for a street car some would say..but you guys that have ran at the dragstrip often you can see the issue I feel in the car does relate to the slip.

[mchell]

Would have been nice to see the 1000’ on the older slip to compare as well. Really too close to call….

Might want to run another few time’s to solidify the results. Tune in decent shape?

My combo is somewhat similar to yours with mine having a race weight of 4008lbs(just weighed, must be getting fat) and 3.55 gear. Mine did NOT care for a tight converter. Currently settled with a PTC 4500 stall. Doesn’t return great MPH but 60’s at 1.52-1.54 and will return 11.0’s in decent weather. Agree with others that the gear will need to match the stall. I think mine would be better suited with at least a 3.73…..but I’m not looking to go any quicker so I run what I brung.

Thanks for posting your results