[X72GPX]

Saw this for sale originally sourced from Butler would like your opinions and would it work well with a 461, continental converter and 336 rear?

torkerII, 87 cc E heads DPorts (not sure of flow yet)
Comp cam 231-239 106CL and 535-550 lift

Thanks!

[b-man]

Not a bad setup, but it kinda depends on the price.

If it’s a flat tappet cam you’re taking chances when moving a used cam and lifter set to another block, so maybe pass on the cam I’m thinking.

[steve25]

Even if the heads and T2 are stock you should with a 9.5 comp have a easy 500 hp.

[X72GPX]

Yes, Lunati roller.

[X72GPX]

Thank you guys

[mpmsmuscle]

You can take the BP numbers off those heads and call Jim Butler Performance and he can tell you what he did to these heads. And more than likely any port work or flow bench test numbers.

[X72GPX]

Thank you, will definitely call Butler.

[X72GPX]

Called Butler and they had ported them to 295. Bought them, along with lunati 712, stud girdle, 1.5 rockers, roller lifters, port matched torker II.

My goal is 600 hp, pump gas, street car with maybe a few trips to the track.

My existing combo:
461 cube
I calculate compression ratio with these heads to be 10.7
336 rear
T400 trans
Jim hand continental 2800-3200
Holley hp 950
Long branch manifolds

Do you think the lunati 712 is a good match? If not what cam do you recommend? Do I need less overlap with long branches?

Would porting to 325 help me get there?

[PunchT37]

600hp? I would go up another 10 degrees or so on the cam and run 1 7/8 tube headers.

[X72GPX]

Would like to stick with the long branches.

[Formulajones]

500hp is there with that setup, 600 would be a far stretch even with more camshaft. But I think you would (as most people seem to be) happy with that power output since the torque production would be closer to 600 and pretty flat making it very fun to drive. Would make a nice pump gas street engine.

[mpmsmuscle]

I would go with the Lunati 713 Hydraulic roller. It will match well with your head flow and compression ratio.
This would be a great street combo, and 600 HP is doable with your head flow and compression ratio. I would also use 1.65 Harland Sharp rockers.
You will really like this combo!!!

Lunati 20510713LUN
Dur @ .050 243/251
Gross valve lift 560/565 with 1.52 rockers
LSA 110 ICL 106
RPM 2600-6600
10:5.1 Compression needed and 3200 RPM stall needed

[Formulajones]

I'm curious how many guys around here have actually run their engines on the dyno for a real number.

I know people like to throw numbers around, and a dyno is just a number, but it's apparent many don't realize how hard it is to hit 600hp with a 455 Pontiac engine using conventional port heads with moderate pump gas compression ratios and mild camshafts.

I've built quite a few Pontiacs and have run them on the dyno, granted conservative accurate dynos and not inflated numbers, and 600 is a very tough number to reach. They do make fantastic torque however. Step up to a high port head or something where the push rod pinch is moved out of the way for more cross section area and it becomes easier to hit those lofty goals. Otherwise you would have to get pretty aggressive with compression and camshaft and it starts to become something not favorable for the street section.

Case in point a pretty rambunctious 455 (463) we built years ago, with 10.4:1 compression, had Eddy round port 330 cfm heads CNC'd from Kauffman, and his custom hydraulic roller that was 254/262 @ .050, 2" Hooker super comps, 950hp carb, and we tried 3 different intakes on the engine that day. The dyno never got close to 600hp but it did make 604 ft lbs. of torque. HP was just over 500. It was a great street engine despite the aggressive camshaft and ran on 91 pump easily. Most here wouldn't even consider a camshaft like that for the street section.

Not that those numbers matter a whole bunch, what mattered was that the car would run the number at the track. It eventually did mid 11's at 115-116 mph at a 4120lbs. race weight in street trim. Doing the math backwards coincides fairly closely to what it made. So I wouldn't get too hung up on those HP numbers.

A solid build, 455 cubes, with those heads flowing in the 300 cfm range and a nice 230-ish camshaft, 10:1 compression, will make more grunt than HP and be a total blast to drive on the street.

[X72GPX]

Thanks all, I will stick with the 712 and butler ported 295 d’s, is what it is.
Has to be much better than current combo, ported iron d’s (maybe 260 ish according to the builder) torker and flat tappet 240/244 523/551 on a 112, at it least it better be, lot of work to swap.
Increasing compression and roller cam.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Case in point a pretty rambunctious 455 (463) we built years ago, with 10.4:1 compression, had Eddy round port 330 cfm heads CNC'd from Kauffman, and his custom hydraulic roller that was 254/262 @ .050, 2" Hooker super comps, 950hp carb, and we tried 3 different intakes on the engine that day. The dyno never got close to 600hp but it did make 604 ft lbs. of torque. HP was just over 500. It was a great street engine despite the aggressive camshaft and ran on 91 pump easily. Most here wouldn't even consider a camshaft like that for the street section.

IMO there is power missing here. There are plenty of combos in the street setion that use 300-315cfm d-ports and the old faithful cam. These combos were 550+ hp. IIRC, some were in the 585 range.

[grivera]

IIRC, Va68Goat's engine, a .030 over 455 built by Paul Carter with unported 85 CC KRE heads made ~550/550 on dyno . I'm pretty certain it uses the Lunati 20510713LUN HR 243/251

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

IMO there is power missing here. There are plenty of combos in the street setion that use 300-315cfm d-ports and the old faithful cam. These combos were 550+ hp. IIRC, some were in the 585 range.

Meh......the dyno numbers don't mean a whole bunch and that was part of the point I was making. It still ran the numbers at the track along with a few other cars that had higher dyno numbers. The bigger point was that combo's like this don't reach the 600hp level.

Most of the dyno's on the interwebs don't include the more important information anyway so a lot of that stuff is inflated. A lot of dyno's are pretty stingy too, such as the DTS we used. So comparisons are all over the place. I'd consider a dyno pretty darn happy if you have a Pontiac 455 with conventional heads at 300 cfm and a 230's @ .050 cam showing 600+hp.

[slowbird]

I've been on the dyno and made 600+, you do need to have things figured out to do it. People make it sound easy.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Appears to me as a true Street pump gas capability.

My 9.0:1 combo was too low compression for the big Flat-HYD cam but ran well (well enough). Your potential combo would represent a good combo.

[Skip Fix]

Stingy dyno-ie 1/4/ mph formulas show 25-50 more hp even through exhaust system not used on dyno. 525 hp 0.030 455 320 cfm Kaufman CNC round port E heads T2 850 DP, UD HFT 239/247 @ 0.050 on a 112. Hooker 2", 3" X and mandrel bent tailpipes 124 mph 3750 lbs. Pump gas 10.2:1