[Mace1971]

Quick question. Is oil or aluminum anti-seize the best lube for the intake manifold bolts into aluminum heads? Edelbrock recommends 25 ft/lbs but doesn’t specify the type of lube. Seems to me that the anti-seize would be the best protection against galling and dissimilar metal corrosion but not sure it matters. Thanks.

[steve25]

Anti- seize is not a lube my friend!
A film of non synth 30 wt oil on the bolts such that you can just see a shine from it is all you need!

Some of the bolts even on aftermarket heads are drilled thru into the internal oil drain back area of the motor and you in no way want excess anti- size to get mixed in with engine oil!

[Mace1971]

Thanks Steve, oil it is.

[Dave M]

One thing I do use anti-seize on often is exhaust manifold bolts. I've never had a problem removing them since I started doing that. Does anyone do that too?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Formulas]

Anti seize is a lubricant depending on exactly which one you use will depend what compound they use for the anti seize charachteristics but that compound is suspended in a lubricating carrier oil / grease so all together the anti seize compound is a extreme pressure anti galling lubricating agent

Easier to cut n paste this is from permatex C5A

A premium quality copper anti-seize and thread lubricant that may be used to prevent seizing, corrosion and galling where high temperature conditions exist. Contains a high percentage of micro-fine copper flakes in a semi-synthetic grease carrier and is fortified with high quality rust and corrosion inhibitors.

It only takes a small amount on bolt threads to get the job done but if you somehow got some in the eng oil it is a non issue perhaps if you had a gallon of anti seize and a drop of oil vrs a gallon of oil and a drop of anti seize that would be an issue the stuff is made to be non corrosive and will blend into motor oil and be gone first change

I would use it on any thread in aluminum with the exception of going into a water jacket then you use a thick teflon paste designed just for that and guess what the teflon is an anti galling agent

ARP assy lube is techically a anti seize its moly fortified extreme pressure paste

.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by steve25

Anti- seize is not a lube my friend!
A film of non synth 30 wt oil on the bolts such that you can just see a shine from it is all you need!

Some of the bolts even on aftermarket heads are drilled thru into the internal oil drain back area of the motor and you in no way want excess anti- size to get mixed in with engine oil!

anti-seize is indeed a lubricant my friend! read the bottle of most any brand & it says "lubricant" right in the name. also the ingredients list grease or petroleum oils of some form as a base, then it has copper, aluminum, & graphite. it acts as a lubricant as well as provides protection from corrosion & galling.

as for aluminum head bolts, edelbrock uses steel inserts or helicoils for intake & exhaust bolt holes as opposed to tapped bare aluminum. i called edelbrock tech to ask about using oil or anti seize when i installed my heads & they said it wouldn't hurt to use some oil or anti seize on the bolts but to be sure you dont over torque.

[Mace1971]

Steel inserts? I don’t see any indication of inserts on my E-heads, I’ll need to go take a much closer look. Also, mine seem to be early production heads so the inserts may have been added after too many ham-handed non-mechanics (like me) stripped the aluminum threads out thinking “one more quarter turn for insurance” was a good idea. I’ll definently take a look, hope there are inserts.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Mace1971

Steel inserts? I don’t see any indication of inserts on my E-heads, I’ll need to go take a much closer look. Also, mine seem to be early production heads so the inserts may have been added after too many ham-handed non-mechanics (like me) stripped the aluminum threads out thinking “one more quarter turn for insurance” was a good idea. I’ll definently take a look, hope there are inserts.

i'm not 100% sure but i recall the tech guy saying that either the exhaust or both intake & exhaust used steel inserts so they can handle the added torque. the spark plug holes are just tapped aluminum & have a much lower torque rating of 10 or 12lb/ft. the manual also says to use anti seize on the spark plug holes so im sure it wont hurt on any other bolt hole but be mindfull of the torque. if you're concerned about using it, a call to their tech line is quick & easy.

edit: confirmed they use inserts for the rocker studs & ex bolt holes, but maybe not the intake or other bolt holes. regardless of that, its fine to use anti seize on the intake or any other bolts that dont require a thread sealer or loctite.

[78w72]

& being they are dissimilar metals, anti seize would be much better than oil for those bolts.

[Mace1971]

Looks like the preponderance of opinion favored the anti-seize. Thanks for the inputs all!

[steve25]

I guess I did not detail my comment enough, and I assumed he was talking about the silver brush on permatex in the jug type bottle!

Can any one tell me how torque applied ratings change when using anti seize over oil or assy lube?

[78w72]

the permatex in a bottle is a lubricant too!

not sure how the torque ratings change but its most likely similiar to grease/oil.

[Dave M]

Would this be ok to use instead of ARP head bolt lube? Gonna swap heads on a motor and don’t have any more of the ARP stuff. Looks like the same stuff to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[78w72]

the stuff pictured & most anti seize are not the same as arp lube. someone mentioned above the arp has moly in it. there may be an a-s with moly but i wouldnt substitute it for the arp stuff without at least calling arp tech to ask if its ok to use a-s, probably is just need to adjust the tq rating.

[Formulas]

Dave i would use ARP lube simply because ARP supplies a torque value based on their lube to obtain proper clamp loads the only way i would substitute is if i was reasonably sure the proposed lubricant had the same qualities as ARP lube which is a extreme pressure moly'b based compound which gives it its black color
Your silver color anti seize compounds are usually nickle or aluminum powder in a carrier compound and the copper color is actual copper powder in a carrier

You can use any lube you wish >IF < you could verify fastner stretch which is indicitive of clamp load which is prohibited with one end of the fastener buried

In a nutshell anti seize compounds provide a very thin layer of moly'b , nickle , aluminum , or copper depending on type to prevent intimate thread contact and the exchange of metal between male and female threads ( galling ) the carrier substance also helps with lubricity

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by 78w72

the permatex in a bottle is a lubricant too!

not sure how the torque ratings change but its most likely similiar to grease/oil.

Yes, this is a lubricant, always has been and is great stuff but it gets all over the place.

[78w72]

...

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The silver version has ninja powers
2 days later you'll find traces of it 100 feet away from anything you were working on.

You clean that off - do a few things - get a beer from fridge - then the fridge handle has some on it.
Cell phone rings - damn its got 2 spots of silver on it too.
It will not die .

The copper version doesn't seem to be near as bad .

[Bob with the 66]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The silver version has ninja powers
2 days later you'll find traces of it 100 feet away from anything you were working on.

You clean that off - do a few things - get a beer from fridge - then the fridge handle has some on it.
Cell phone rings - damn its got 2 spots of silver on it too.
It will not die .

The copper version doesn't seem to be near as bad .

This is so true!
Can't tell you the amount of times I've found it on parts, clothes, tools, chairs, work bench, areas of the garage that I know I never even entered. (LOL...)

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by steve25

Can any one tell me how torque applied ratings change when using anti seize over oil or assy lube?

Yeah, I bet every company that makes anti-seize has done research into torque values vs. product lubricity...but they're not letting me in on their secrets.

I use the old, standby, rule-of-thumb: Compared to a dry, plated fastener, reduce torque by 20% when using anti-seize.