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Old 05-26-2021, 09:53 PM
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Default Leaking intake at water crossover ports

I Have an edelbrock Torker 2 intake with Ported Kauffman D-Ports, my old intake gaskets were leaking a bit by the front water ports so I figured I would throw some new ones on for the season.
I took the intake off and put on one of the new sets of intake gaskets. I put black RTV around the front crossover holes to help the gasket line up. Did this about a week ago; When I came to look at the car today there was puddles of coolant on top of the intake..seems like it's leaking bad from the front bolts, especially driver side..is this gasket supposed to be porous? It seems the gaskets are both wet. I haven't even ran the car since putting the new gaskets on and this is what happened. My engine guy at SD says these are the only gaskets that accomodate the large D port opening for the CNC heads.... as you can see in the pictures the gasket is already soaked.

any suggestions? this is really grinding my gears as to why its leaking like crazy!
I don't know how to attach photos from google drive so here are the links
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L3E...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kxo...ew?usp=sharing

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Last edited by andrewT; 05-26-2021 at 09:56 PM. Reason: pictures
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Old 05-27-2021, 05:00 AM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
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WHAT GASKETS DID YOU USE??? WHAT BRAND AND PART NUMBER?

RTV Silicone is a mistake. Use a real gasket sealer next time. Gasgacinch, High Tack, Indian Head, Copper Coat, Hylomar, Permatex 1, 2, or 3, or any one of a dozen others, but NOT RTV SILICONE.

Bolt threads cleaned of rust, and torqued properly, in sequence shown in service manual?

Manifold NOT warped or corroded?

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Old 05-27-2021, 06:16 AM
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If as you say, your seeing signs of coolant on top of the crossover then it’s not coming from poor sealing intake gaskets, as those leaks always end up pooled in the end lip sump of the valley pan cover!

It’s coming from 3 other possible things , the thermostat gasket, the upper hose, or a sender fitting , or I have even had the senders themselves leak.

Also look closely at the Thermostat bolt holes , as I have seem them cracked out vertically .

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Old 05-27-2021, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
WHAT GASKETS DID YOU USE??? WHAT BRAND AND PART NUMBER?

RTV Silicone is a mistake. Use a real gasket sealer next time. Gasgacinch, High Tack, Indian Head, Copper Coat, Hylomar, Permatex 1, 2, or 3, or any one of a dozen others, but NOT RTV SILICONE.

Bolt threads cleaned of rust, and torqued properly, in sequence shown in service manual?

Manifold NOT warped or corroded?
I saw these tips in this thread
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ater+crossover
Hence the RTV...Manifold is good, brand new, no corrosion. I am using these gaskets as seen in the picture links "Thermoseal RG-N100" ...SD Performance says these are the proper gaskets for my CNC matched intake and heads I am running purchased from him. He says he gets them from Tin Indian performance. When I google that name/number on the gasket nothing comes up for specs so I called Tin Indian and haven't heard back. SD says he doesn't like them much but that its really the only option for this combination.

I tightened the bolts in sequence based on the edelbrock torker 2 installation manual (which says centre outwards) but seeing Tom Vaught's post in the thread I linked he suggests a different sequence (back to front, to middle).

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
If as you say, your seeing signs of coolant on top of the crossover then it’s not coming from poor sealing intake gaskets, as those leaks always end up pooled in the end lip sump of the valley pan cover!

It’s coming from 3 other possible things , the thermostat gasket, the upper hose, or a sender fitting , or I have even had the senders themselves leak.

Also look closely at the Thermostat bolt holes , as I have seem them cracked out vertically .
There was pooling at the back lip sump of the valley pan as well.
All those other things you mention are good...There is literally so much coolant I can see the trail out of the crossover section as it has now stained the intake.
Car has never been run. Upper hose, senders, etc all good but will double check today.

Thanks Gents

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Old 05-27-2021, 07:15 AM
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Get rid of silicone. use some Permatex # 2 and be done with it.

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Old 05-27-2021, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewT View Post
I saw these tips in this thread
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ater+crossover
Hence the RTV...Manifold is good, brand new, no corrosion. I am using these gaskets as seen in the picture links "Thermoseal RG-N100" ...SD Performance says these are the proper gaskets for my CNC matched intake and heads I am running purchased from him. He says he gets them from Tin Indian performance. When I google that name/number on the gasket nothing comes up for specs so I called Tin Indian and haven't heard back. SD says he doesn't like them much but that its really the only option for this combination.

I tightened the bolts in sequence based on the edelbrock torker 2 installation manual (which says centre outwards) but seeing Tom Vaught's post in the thread I linked he suggests a different sequence (back to front, to middle).



There was pooling at the back lip sump of the valley pan as well.
All those other things you mention are good...There is literally so much coolant I can see the trail out of the crossover section as it has now stained the intake.
Car has never been run. Upper hose, senders, etc all good but will double check today.

Thanks Gents

although there are other options for gasket sealers... i've used ultra black in that area of intakes & many other places with zero leaks or issues on 4 or 5 different engines for decades. permatex states ultra black/grey rtv can be used as a dressing on most gaskets with out any problems...

https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/.../tds/22072.pdf

if its leaking that bad before even running the engine, its not the rtv's fault. something else is going on to cause the leak. hope you figure it out.

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Old 05-27-2021, 11:05 AM
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Long shot but have you measured the bolts to make sure they aren’t bottoming-out before clamping down the crossover?

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Old 05-27-2021, 11:31 AM
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Good point in post #7 here!
I have had that issue myself and most times a two 5 cent washers takes care of it until that other correct bolt is found or you buy another.

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Old 05-27-2021, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewT View Post
I saw these tips in this thread
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ater+crossover
Hence the RTV...
I searched that thread. Two products were mentioned--Permatex #2, and The Right Stuff, which as far as I know is not RTV Silicone, it's Polyurethane. One guy asked about RTV, but was told to use The Right Stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewT View Post
I am using these gaskets as seen in the picture links "Thermoseal RG-N100" ...SD Performance says these are the proper gaskets for my CNC matched intake and heads I am running purchased from him. He says he gets them from Tin Indian performance. When I google that name/number on the gasket nothing comes up for specs so I called Tin Indian and haven't heard back. SD says he doesn't like them much but that its really the only option for this combination.
"Thermoseal RG-N100" is the bulk paper the gasket has been stamped from.

https://klinger-thermoseal.com/produ...moseal-rg-n100
Quote:
RG-N100 is a nitrile butadiene rubber, reinforced cellulose fiber and mineral filler general purpose gasket material. Its low density provides good conformability in sealing fuels, oils, and water in applications such as automobile water pumps, miscellaneous cover gaskets, and many small engine applications.

RG-N100 is suitable for applications with intermittent operating temperatures up to 350°F (177°C).
You're basically buying home-made rubber-enhanced paper gaskets with no embossing or sealing beads. Good luck.

Are the gaskets even thick enough? They look mighty thin on my monitor. The only thickness mentioned by the manufacturer is 0.031; but that doesn't mean there aren't other thicknesses available.

Put a straightedge on each gasket surface of the manifold, look for warping. Trial-fit on the engine, poke a feeler gauge between manifold and head in several places to verify fitment.


Last edited by Schurkey; 05-27-2021 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:31 PM
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You should have at least a .060 gasket in there. I just had some spacers made for my shaved down intake to fit. But wish someone would make ones like mine with an embedded seal and they would be reusable.

Maybe go get some 1/16 aluminum and make up a few small sections for crossover and seal it up with a proper sealer and ditch the paper gasket at the front.
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewT View Post
I saw these tips in this thread
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ater+crossover

I tightened the bolts in sequence based on the edelbrock torker 2 installation manual (which says centre outwards) but seeing Tom Vaught's post in the thread I linked he suggests a different sequence (back to front, to middle).

Thanks Gents
ANYTIME YOU PUT THE INTAKE ON THE ENGINE, SET THE INTAKE ON AND GET TWO FRONT BOLTS LIGHTLY STARTED THEN TIGHTEN THE LONG BOLT THAT GOES FROM THE TIMING COVER TO THE INTAKE AND TIGHTEN THAT "O-RING" FIRST. Then install the other bolts in the intake and follow the sequence I posted previously.

You will always have a water leak if you try to seal that "o-ring" between the intake and timing cover later on.

Seal that "o-ring" between the intake and timing cover FIRST

Tom V.

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Old 05-27-2021, 12:56 PM
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What Tom said.
The type of sealant your using is not the problem. Make sure the manifold dry fits correctly with your heads, block and valley cover then install as per Tom V.

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Old 05-27-2021, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78w72 View Post
although there are other options for gasket sealers... i've used ultra black in that area of intakes & many other places with zero leaks or issues on 4 or 5 different engines for decades. permatex states ultra black/grey rtv can be used as a dressing on most gaskets with out any problems...

https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/.../tds/22072.pdf

if its leaking that bad before even running the engine, its not the rtv's fault. something else is going on to cause the leak. hope you figure it out.
Ditto this^
Rtv works just fine around the water ports. Been purposely using it around intake water ports for many years. No issues. If you have any pitting it'll be the only thing that works well. DON'T use it around the intake ports it doesn't play well with gasoline.

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Old 05-27-2021, 07:12 PM
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Only problem I have ever had with RTV was at the track. It takes time to cure. P #2 does not harden so there is no cure time.

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Old 05-27-2021, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grivera View Post
Long shot but have you measured the bolts to make sure they aren’t bottoming-out before clamping down the crossover?
measured em, all is good



Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
I searched that thread. Two products were mentioned--Permatex #2, and The Right Stuff, which as far as I know is not RTV Silicone, it's Polyurethane. One guy asked about RTV, but was told to use The Right Stuff.



"Thermoseal RG-N100" is the bulk paper the gasket has been stamped from.

https://klinger-thermoseal.com/produ...moseal-rg-n100


You're basically buying home-made rubber-enhanced paper gaskets with no embossing or sealing beads. Good luck.

Are the gaskets even thick enough? They look mighty thin on my monitor. The only thickness mentioned by the manufacturer is 0.031; but that doesn't mean there aren't other thicknesses available.

Put a straightedge on each gasket surface of the manifold, look for warping. Trial-fit on the engine, poke a feeler gauge between manifold and head in several places to verify fitment.
They are thick enough at 0.060..I know they look pretty mickey mouse. Dave at SD said he doesn't like them either but it's all he can find that fits the CNC'd ports for this application. Lucky I bought two sets since I put it back together today with the second set. Manifold is now on using #2 permatex at the water ports. Waiting 24 hours before putting collant/water in so that it can "cure" even though #2 never really hardens apparently. We will see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Eveland View Post
You should have at least a .060 gasket in there. I just had some spacers made for my shaved down intake to fit. But wish someone would make ones like mine with an embedded seal and they would be reusable.

Maybe go get some 1/16 aluminum and make up a few small sections for crossover and seal it up with a proper sealer and ditch the paper gasket at the front.
good idea! I will see how these cheap-o ones hold up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
ANYTIME YOU PUT THE INTAKE ON THE ENGINE, SET THE INTAKE ON AND GET TWO FRONT BOLTS LIGHTLY STARTED THEN TIGHTEN THE LONG BOLT THAT GOES FROM THE TIMING COVER TO THE INTAKE AND TIGHTEN THAT "O-RING" FIRST. Then install the other bolts in the intake and follow the sequence I posted previously.

You will always have a water leak if you try to seal that "o-ring" between the intake and timing cover later on.

Seal that "o-ring" between the intake and timing cover FIRST

Tom V.
I followed your advice Tom. Much appreciated. Intake is on there now with #2 around the water ports. Putting the coolant in tomorrow to see what happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken View Post
What Tom said.
The type of sealant your using is not the problem. Make sure the manifold dry fits correctly with your heads, block and valley cover then install as per Tom V.
dry fits perfect. Lots of clearance at valley pan and no warping, etc. If this set of gaskets doesn't work...I dunno! lol

Thanks ALL!

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Old 05-27-2021, 11:09 PM
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What is your port size? There are many intake gaskets to choose from?

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Old 05-29-2021, 03:23 PM
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I had a chronic coolant leak at the crossover using regular gaskets with an aftermarket crossover no matter what sealer I tried. These Teflon gaskets fixed it and are reusable. They are thicker than most of the gaskets on the market.
http://www.tinindianperformance.com/...%20gaskets.htm

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Old 05-29-2021, 06:10 PM
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I did not read thru every reply to the OP here, but one other thing I recall I had happen which kept a good intake gasket seal from taking place was with a milled head and block combo.
The total amount removed combined with the gaskets I used had the bottom of the intake flange sitting on the valley pan such that I had to grind like ,030” off each passenger and drivers side lip of the pan to get a seal.
Sorry for going thru all of this if it was covered in a previous reply!

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Old 05-29-2021, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
I had a chronic coolant leak at the crossover using regular gaskets with an aftermarket crossover no matter what sealer I tried. These Teflon gaskets fixed it and are reusable. They are thicker than most of the gaskets on the market.
http://www.tinindianperformance.com/...%20gaskets.htm
The new gaskets are holding up OKAY for now. If they go out again that is the next gasket I will be trying

thank you

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