[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

I would like to hear comments about post 28 on this thread. How many of you are confident that your machine shop cleaned the lifter oil galleries by removing the front and rear plugs?

The 428 we're working on was very clean inside, but, as I said, the passenger side gallery was completely full of sludge behind the 3/8" pipe plug for 3/4"-1" in.

Very common on a Pontiac block on the passenger side without the HO Racing oiling hole to "Oil the distributor gear".

Actually it keeps the trash from building up in that passenger side gallery over time.
Some run a gun rod thru the gallery until they hit the sludge and think they are at the plug.

Remove all of the plugs and you a rifle cleaning wire brush to scour the gallery so it is spotless.

Tom V.

[Dick Boneske]

Plans for the 'Bird changed when the shop called and said one of the cylinder walls was cracked on the 428. He does not believe in sleeving, so we procured a 1973 400 block and went with Forged Eagle crank, rods, Diamond pistons. It is now a 467.

Cam the builder supplied is a Comp Cams solid flat tappet custom grind. He calls it a "modernized RAIV" cam with more lift, even with 1.5 rocker arms. The Comp Cam lifters with the EDM'd hole in the cam surface are to be lashed at .006", so there is very little valve noise. He showed me an engine running with this same cam, and now, for the first time in my life, I believe solid lifters may be OK for a street engine. Cam specs are attached.

Plans are to use KRE D port heads with long branch factory exhaust manifolds.

I have many questions:

1. We're using a new stock 6 qt. pan with baffle. I have both 3/4 and full length windage trays. Should we use one of those as well as the pan baffle?
2. The builder set u the rotating assy. for zero deck clearance. KRE heads are either 74 or 87 cc. It looks as though 74 cc would be a little high on CR, 87 cc a little low. What should we do?
3. Is there a reason not to use the 8 bolt water pump/timing cover? Is there an advantage to the 11 bolt?? We will use a FlowKooler pump with either.
4. We plan to use a Moroso oil pump. Which spring?

[64gp4spd]

Hi, regarding the KRE Heads, I just had a 463 built by Hansen Racing in NJ
4.165 bore 4.25 Stroke 6.80 Rod Zero Deck Height.
We used the KRE 87CC heads and cut them to 79CC
Ended up with a CR of 11:1. Using the Old Faithful Hyd Roller Cam

Rich

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by 64gp4spd

Hi, regarding the KRE Heads, I just had a 463 built by Hansen Racing in NJ
4.165 bore 4.25 Stroke 6.80 Rod Zero Deck Height.
We used the KRE 87CC heads and cut them to 79CC
Ended up with a CR of 11:1. Using the Old Faithful Hyd Roller Cam

Rich

Thanks. That's an idea. We can calculate compression ratio with our present combo and cut the KRE heads. With aluminum heads, between 10.5 and 11.0 should be good for a street car.

Does the Old Faithful cam have similar specs to the Comp Cams solid flat tappet I posted? What kind of induction did you use?

Does the engine live up to your expectations?

[Tom Vaught]

I have run solid flat tappet cams in the 246/256 duration range several times and was very happy with that group of camshafts as far as duration goes. Good Luck Dick.

Tom V.

[Dick Boneske]

Thanks. Still need opinions on the windage tray--3/4 or full length? Which oil pump spring--65 psi or 80 psi? Water pump 8 bolt vs. 11 bolt?

[64gp4spd]

Hi Dick. I have only heard the en on the Start Up Stand. Idles nice with a slight rumble
Motor is in the car but still working out some drivetrain issues before firing it up
The Old Faithful is similar on duration. 289/304. 236/245 @.50.
Lift is 570/574 with 1.5 rockers, I’m using 1.65
Heads are KRE 310 CFM. Induction. Torker 2 950 HP with 1 inch open spacer
I’m confident it will run great. Should have it going in a few weeks

Thanks

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

Thanks. Still need opinions on the windage tray--3/4 or full length? Which oil pump spring--65 psi or 80 psi? Water pump 8 bolt vs. 11 bolt?

Full length windage trays are made of thinner material than the 3/4 trays and are much more prone to cracking.

The factory completely did away with the tray by around 1975. The lower dipstick tube was no longer retained by the tray itself which was bolted to the #2 and #4 main caps, it had a bracket welded to the tube which now was directly attached to the #3 main cap.

Depending on how your main caps are right now I would either delete the tray (#3 cap drilled and tapped) or run the 3/4 tray (#2 & #4 drilled and tapped). Better than the factory 3/4 tray would be the Tomahawk 3/4 tray which is even thicker than the factory 3/4 tray and much less susceptible to cracking, coming apart and ending up wadded up inside your rotating assembly.

Absolutely no reason to run the 80 psi spring.

Run whichever water pump setup that best matches up with your pulleys and accessories, either one will cool just fine. The real advantage of the 11 bolt pump is ease of finding replacements sitting on the shelf at a parts store, not so much with the 8 bolt pump.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Matt Meaney

1. what I remember is, to add a small hole to one of the oil galley plugs in the front of the engine for better timing chain lube.

Originally Posted by 67gtospud

One of the plugs I installed in the front is also drilled to help oil the timing gearset.

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I stopped using a drilled plug up front - there are several controlled leaks supplying a massive amount of oil through the cam retainer plate and just don't see any need to bleed off oil any more oil up front.

The hole in the front plug is NOT to "lube the timing chain". That hole is not intended to "lube" ANYTHING.

It's there to BLEED AIR AT STARTUP, reducing lifter clatter. This is more important on some engine families than others. If you've got a heap of oil blowing out the cam retainer plate, you may not need more venting. Personally, I like having the hole in the plug.

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I restored the original AC system in the 67 GTO cruiser. Spent a whole bunch of money and everything was new and used R12. It always kept us comfortable, but it did so on recirculate and high speed. Went with Vintage Air on the blue 67 and spent about half as much, and within a mile or two I'm turning down the fan speed and turning the temp dial up. While the original system was adequate, the VA will freeze you out.

Something was still wrong with the original system. Unlike the later CCOT systems, those early A/C systems could be adjusted to blow air so cold that they'd spit tiny ice crystals out the vents. They'd blow 33 degree air. You couldn't get colder air out of an A/C system, because the outside of the evaporator would freeze solid from the humidity in the air. I bet you had a faulty or misadjusted POA valve; or a blend door that didn't seal properly so that the cold air was being re-heated.

Originally Posted by steve25

Do replace that 3/8" pipe rear oil galley plug with a Aluminum one drilled out with the .030" hole.

Brass works fine, is easy to drill, and is easier to source than aluminum. Any hardware or "home improvement" store has a selection of brass fittings and plugs..

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

How many of you are confident that your machine shop cleaned the lifter oil galleries by removing the front and rear plugs?

The 428 we're working on was very clean inside, but, as I said, the passenger side gallery was completely full of sludge behind the 3/8" pipe plug for 3/4"-1" in.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Very common on a Pontiac block on the passenger side without the HO Racing oiling hole to "Oil the distributor gear".

Actually it keeps the trash from building up in that passenger side gallery over time.
Some run a gun rod thru the gallery until they hit the sludge and think they are at the plug.

Remove all of the plugs and you a rifle cleaning wire brush to scour the gallery so it is spotless.

I bought a bunch of Olds big-blocks some years ago. The Olds has an almost-identical oiling system as the Pontiac. All the Olds engines with a drilling in the plug to lube the distributor gear had reasonably clear oil passages. The ones without the drilling in the plug, had sludge filling the end of that oil gallery, all the way to the rearmost lifter.

Those plugs MUST come out, and whoever assembles the engine MUST verify that the oil galleries are clean. In fact, you'd better verify EVERY oil passage, there's "surprises" that can hide anywhere internally. I even caught my favorite machine shop not properly cleaning a block I brought them--all sorts of grit in the oil passages. From then on, I tell them to NOT put the new plugs back in when they're done machining. I want those passages OPEN for my inspection. I put the plugs in when I'm satisfied that the galleries are clean.

[grivera]

What main and rod clearances did you end up with?

[Dick Boneske]

Here is the spec sheet from the builder. As you can see, we're making progress on assy. We used standard .040 head gaskets, coated on the metal side with copper spray. We should be around 10.3:1 with the 85 cc chambers.

Now, we need to port the manifold to match the intake ports on the heads. They are 310 cfm with ports about 3/16" higher than standard Pontiac heads.

[KEN CROCIE]

Use .028"(nod to Mick)-.035". Most of us have a 1/32" drill bit. Besides lubricating the dist. gear, the hole allows oil flow thru the oil gallery, and not sludge up. use al., brass , or iron. I think the stock plug is iron, and therefore drillable. There is no pressure loss.
The stock thrust plate oil system meters oil to the plate once every cam revolution, and then, from there, the oil splashes to the chain. the chain is also open to the front of the oil pan. This system doesn't need improvements.

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

Use .028"(nod to Mick)-.035". Most of us have a 1/32" drill bit. Besides lubricating the dist. gear, the hole allows oil flow thru the oil gallery, and not sludge up. use al., brass , or iron. I think the stock plug is iron, and therefore drillable. There is no pressure loss.
The stock thrust plate oil system meters oil to the plate once every cam revolution, and then, from there, the oil splashes to the chain. the chain is also open to the front of the oil pan. This system doesn't need improvements.

Yes, we did add the 1/32" hole in the rear of the oil gallery for the distributor. We're making progress on assy.

The intake will have to be ported to match the KRE 310 CFM heads. The bottom edges of the intake interfere with the valley pan, so we'll remove material from the bottom edge around the ports.

[blueghoast]

What did you do with the 428?

GT

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by blueghoast

What did you do with the 428?

GT

Post 42

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Post 42

He probably read that post.
It didn't say what he did with the 428 engine. Maybe the guy wants it as he doesn't have a problem with a sleeved cylinder.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

He probably read that post.
It didn't say what he did with the 428 engine. Maybe the guy wants it as he doesn't have a problem with a sleeved cylinder.

I thought that too.
Was just making sure.

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by blueghoast

What did you do with the 428?

GT

Did you scrap the 428 did you keep it?

[KEN CROCIE]

You guys noticed that's a hyd cam, right?