[HWYSTR455]

Ok, yeah, those seat foams are way overstuffed and out of shape. Your head will be hitting the roof and you will slide all over the place. They are least 3" plus too high.

Here's a pic of an OE type seat. Look at the bolsters, and how the covers lay, as well as the shape.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Did you transfer the listing wires over? Those listing wires need to be pulled down and hog ringed to the seat springs through the grooves in the foam.

That's what creates the bolsters.

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[HWYSTR455]

Use an electric carving knife and trim it the most of the way, then use an angle grinder with a sanding pad on it to finish shaping.

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[HWYSTR455]

The front/leading edge of the foam needs to be rounded, can start with the carving knife, cut a 45 degree angle out of that edge, then round it with the sanding pad on the grinder.

Look at the pic I posted, at the leading edge of the lower pan, and use the cover bead as a reference.

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[HWYSTR455]

Beat me to it ID67goat, I was typing!

OP - Re-read my 32 & 33 posts. You HAVE to trim the foams.


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[jimib]

Oh boy and OMG. I made such a rookie mistake. I forgot to hog ring the top two sides of the seat vinyl. This is why it looks overstuffed. I hope to have this fixed by day's end and re-post pic's. I just have to laugh. LOL.

[HWYSTR455]

I'm tellin' ya, that's not why it looks overstuffed. It's the foam pattern the foam was made from, you have to trim them to make them look right.

I struggled with this a while ago, finally gave up, and took it to a shop. They didn't do any better, so took it somewhere else, they did better, but when I complained about the overstuff, they said "You want that, so when it breaks in" blah blah blah. 12+ years and like 150k miles, no change.

This time around, as I mentioned, I bought completely new parts assembled PUI seats. Overstuffed. So it's not an 'amateur's' mistake. They either don't know any better or they don't want to put the extra effort into it.

One thing worth noting though, we are not the only ones having this issue when restoring strato buckets, and now Thorton sells ones that are supposed to be made from the OE forms. The make them with no slots, half slots, or full slots, and work on like 95% of the musclecar buckets out there. Unfortunately for me though, the comfortweave ones fall into that 5%, but certain they will be a better baseline than the existing crap foams.

https://www.thorntonmusclecars.com/p...7-02c4e12b24be

Excerpt:

"USA made seats foams; tested, used, and approved by Thornton.

Seat foams are made in the Greater Philadelphia area by the original company who supplied GM (Yes we tracked them down and they happen to be local to us!).

The proper fit and feel of the seats are of the utmost importance for the iconic A-bodies. The seat foam will set the final height of the seat (for those of you who have experienced your head touching the headliner) and can even push the driver closer to the steering wheel. They also dictate the overall pull and fit of the seat covers. The molds for these foams were replicated to have the same contour, density, and dimensions as the original seat foams.

Samples of these foams have been put through the ringer to ensure the best fit and feel before the final production was approved.

Seat foams are sold in a set per bucket seat (one upper and one lower).

*Please send us your vehicle information to ensure we send you the proper foams."

I'm going to call and see what other forms they have, but certain they are going to be better than what we've all been dealing with for as long as I can remember. Like I said, the starting point will be much closer and require less work to make right, so I will be ahead in my effort.



.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I'm tellin' ya, that's not why it looks overstuffed. It's the foam pattern the foam was made from, you have to trim them to make them look right.

I struggled with this a while ago, finally gave up, and took it to a shop. They didn't do any better, so took it somewhere else, they did better, but when I complained about the overstuff, they said "You want that, so when it breaks in" blah blah blah. 12+ years and like 150k miles, no change.

This time around, as I mentioned, I bought completely new parts assembled PUI seats. Overstuffed. So it's not an 'amateur's' mistake. They either don't know any better or they don't want to put the extra effort into it.

One thing worth noting though, we are not the only ones having this issue when restoring strato buckets, and now Thorton sells ones that are supposed to be made from the OE forms. The make them with no slots, half slots, or full slots, and work on like 95% of the musclecar buckets out there. Unfortunately for me though, the comfortweave ones fall into that 5%, but certain they will be a better baseline than the existing crap foams.

https://www.thorntonmusclecars.com/p...7-02c4e12b24be

Excerpt:

"USA made seats foams; tested, used, and approved by Thornton.

Seat foams are made in the Greater Philadelphia area by the original company who supplied GM (Yes we tracked them down and they happen to be local to us!).

The proper fit and feel of the seats are of the utmost importance for the iconic A-bodies. The seat foam will set the final height of the seat (for those of you who have experienced your head touching the headliner) and can even push the driver closer to the steering wheel. They also dictate the overall pull and fit of the seat covers. The molds for these foams were replicated to have the same contour, density, and dimensions as the original seat foams.

Samples of these foams have been put through the ringer to ensure the best fit and feel before the final production was approved.

Seat foams are sold in a set per bucket seat (one upper and one lower).

*Please send us your vehicle information to ensure we send you the proper foams."

I'm going to call and see what other forms they have, but certain they are going to be better than what we've all been dealing with for as long as I can remember. Like I said, the starting point will be much closer and require less work to make right, so I will be ahead in my effort.



.

Yeah, you're right. I have too much loose cotton (stuffing). Thanks for the link to Thorton, this may be the way to go. I thought ACI foam through Ames was the right way to go.

[jimib]

I corrected my mistake on the passenger seat but yeah, HWYSTR455 is right, I guess I have too much stuffing. This could be why I have wrinkles in the seat.

[rambow]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I'm tellin' ya, that's not why it looks overstuffed. It's the foam pattern the foam was made from, you have to trim them to make them look right.

The ACI buns do NOT need to be trimmed.
That is not the issue here, its all the extra padding that Jim has added under the buns.

Thank you for the link to the Thornton buns though... I may order a set for my next project so I can get a 1st hand experience with them. Their addition to the market makes 5 different companies making A-body buns right now... all with different properties. This makes it very hard for an individuals to know what they are going to get without 1st hand experience with each one.

I've used all the others on the market today- so interested in what those feel like.

--------------------------------
Jim, I can see you have multiple problems going on, though the 2nd seat isn't as bad as the 1st obviously... I know you doin't want to hear this, but if it was me, i would carefully take the covers back off and start again.


#1 you need to take all that padding back out from under your buns AND OVER THEM. I tried to explain, and the pics I shared tried to shown that... Legendaries and PUI's youtube videos show that. Burlap & Jute like the factory used is THIN. its not more than 1/4" combined. its only purpose is to protect the bottom of the buns, not to add more cushion to the seat.

Technically ACI buns already have an extra mesh on the bottom, so you could even get by with NOTHING if you really wanted to. So Lose all that cotton.
Looking at your pic I also suspect you have more cotton ontop of the bun in the center- that thats true you should remove it all too, its not helping.

The only cotton that should be ontop of the bun would be over the outer bolsters and tucked into the channels to help hide them- this is a THIN layer, and really could be just a roll tucked into the channel and not even draped over the top of the bolster.

#2 Your rear frame horn is not in the ears of the rear cover flap. See those little 1" long sewn "pinches"? push them out from the inside, they create pockets that are supposed to fit tightly over the top outter corners of the frame horn.

#3 Perhaps causing #2, your rear cover attaching rod is not attached to the rear of the springs- i can tell because the cover should be pulled down INTO the springs & frame at the back, and its floating nearly as high as the top of the frame horn itself. That is either caused by all the extra padding in there, or the rear sleeve is not attached(or both).

#4 also looks like you haven't finished hogringing the covers at the front- there are 2 spots on each side of the front frame where hogrings attach.

Most of those wrinkles can be worked out using your hand and pushing the vinyl the opposite direction until it reaches the edge, then repeat... But until that rear of the cover is properly pulled down to the springs and secured, and the front completely hogringed, you would only be spinning your wheels to massage the vinyl any.

-Ben

[roger1]

Originally Posted by rambow

...I've used all the others on the market today- so interested in what those feel like.
-Ben

As a pro, which brand do you like the best?

My 69 GTO seats and the Legendary covers are at the upholstery shop right now. When I talked to him last week, he said once he breaks the seats down, he will decide if the old buns should be replaced or not. So if he asks me to buy new ones, it would be nice to know what brand to order and where to get them.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by rambow

The ACI buns do NOT need to be trimmed.
That is not the issue here, its all the extra padding that Jim has added under the buns.

Thank you for the link to the Thornton buns though... I may order a set for my next project so I can get a 1st hand experience with them. Their addition to the market makes 5 different companies making A-body buns right now... all with different properties. This makes it very hard for an individuals to know what they are going to get without 1st hand experience with each one.

I've used all the others on the market today- so interested in what those feel like.

--------------------------------
Jim, I can see you have multiple problems going on, though the 2nd seat isn't as bad as the 1st obviously... I know you doin't want to hear this, but if it was me, i would carefully take the covers back off and start again.


#1 you need to take all that padding back out from under your buns AND OVER THEM. I tried to explain, and the pics I shared tried to shown that... Legendaries and PUI's youtube videos show that. Burlap & Jute like the factory used is THIN. its not more than 1/4" combined. its only purpose is to protect the bottom of the buns, not to add more cushion to the seat.

Technically ACI buns already have an extra mesh on the bottom, so you could even get by with NOTHING if you really wanted to. So Lose all that cotton.
Looking at your pic I also suspect you have more cotton ontop of the bun in the center- that thats true you should remove it all too, its not helping.

The only cotton that should be ontop of the bun would be over the outer bolsters and tucked into the channels to help hide them- this is a THIN layer, and really could be just a roll tucked into the channel and not even draped over the top of the bolster.

#2 Your rear frame horn is not in the ears of the rear cover flap. See those little 1" long sewn "pinches"? push them out from the inside, they create pockets that are supposed to fit tightly over the top outter corners of the frame horn.

#3 Perhaps causing #2, your rear cover attaching rod is not attached to the rear of the springs- i can tell because the cover should be pulled down INTO the springs & frame at the back, and its floating nearly as high as the top of the frame horn itself. That is either caused by all the extra padding in there, or the rear sleeve is not attached(or both).

#4 also looks like you haven't finished hogringing the covers at the front- there are 2 spots on each side of the front frame where hogrings attach.

Most of those wrinkles can be worked out using your hand and pushing the vinyl the opposite direction until it reaches the edge, then repeat... But until that rear of the cover is properly pulled down to the springs and secured, and the front completely hogringed, you would only be spinning your wheels to massage the vinyl any.

-Ben

Hello Ben,
I'll remove the cotton I placed beneath the bun; there's no cotton on top. I'm working crazy hours this week, so maybe this coming weekend I fix this.

Thank as always, your help is priceless. (-:
And thanks to all on this thread for your input.

[HWYSTR455]

PUI uses the ACI foams, they are definitely too big. I'm tellin' ya, the seats I just bought brand new from PUI are 3" too high, and 3" too far forward. I can barely get in the car it's so high and close to the steering wheel.

I ordered those seats through Ames.

I've done covers before, with OE foams, they go right on, pull tight and hog ring, done.

I still bet the seams came out from the OP's first set of covers due to the extra foam. They are horrible.

And no, when I did it the last time, I used no burlap/cotton, none. Still the same problem.

All you have to do is take an OE cover off OE foam and compare, and it's obvious how much bigger they are.


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[rambow]

Originally Posted by roger1

As a pro, which brand do you like the best?

My 69 GTO seats and the Legendary covers are at the upholstery shop right now. When I talked to him last week, he said once he breaks the seats down, he will decide if the old buns should be replaced or not. So if he asks me to buy new ones, it would be nice to know what brand to order and where to get them.

I only use American Cushion Industries (ACI) buns if possible.
Thats what I put into my 66 442's buckets, and thats what I put in my 68 chevelles buckets.

Ames is a reseller for ACI- but be aware they ALSO sell what they call "economy" seat buns which I'm pretty sure are the Chinese made PUI buns. Those have a much higher profit margin, so you can guess which they'd rather sell.

Make sure you specify which you want. I would call when ordering to be certain. ACI buns will have "AMERICAN CUSHION INDUSTRIES" stenciled right on the bun and will have the cloths used for attaching them to the frames glued onto the bun when you open the box.

National Parts Depot is another reseller for American Cushion, as is Legendary. Wellington Classics is a small resto shop out of Colorado who are also resellers for PUI/Legendary, American Cushion and many others- It all drop ships from the mfgs anyway- but they have some of the best prices available on that stuff. I point a lot of customers their way to make their orders.

I used to accept and use whatever buns people would bring me (PUI & TMI are the most common from various resellers and ebay sellers because they are inexpensive- but I'll turn them away now or will charge extra just to use them, along with a warning about how stiff they are. They are a pain to work with and I know the customer won't be happy with how they sit afterwords.

I feel the same about reproduction spring assemblies- they are too stiff and everyone i know who has them doesn't like what they do to the way you fit in the car, so they are a last choice option ONLY if the springs are beyond repairing. I can make a ton of spring repairs and still come out way under the cost of 4 new assemblies... and I know it will "Sit" better too.

Originally Posted by jimib

Hello Ben,
I'll remove the cotton I placed beneath the bun; there's no cotton on top. I'm working crazy hours this week, so maybe this coming weekend I fix this.

No worries, you are on the right path. The second cushion was looking better than the first. I know how hard it is to want to take them apart to redo again- but they will go easier and better this time because now you've gotten a taste for how to work with them.

if you want to try and do another video call while you are working on them let me know and I'll fit it in.

Cheers!
Ben

[HWYSTR455]

Hm, I hear what you're saying, but pretty sure I've always used ACI foams.

When I called PUI, asking about the seats before I purchased, they told me they use ACI foams. Maybe they lied?

Well, I need to redo the brand new PUI seats I have, so, maybe I will grab a set of thortons and try myself, see what they look like when I pull the covers.

I'm serious, I don't even want to drive my car, the seats are that bad.

.

[rambow]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Hm, I hear what you're saying, but pretty sure I've always used ACI foams.

When I called PUI, asking about the seats before I purchased, they told me they use ACI foams. Maybe they lied?

Well, I need to redo the brand new PUI seats I have, so, maybe I will grab a set of thortons and try myself, see what they look like when I pull the covers.

I'm serious, I don't even want to drive my car, the seats are that bad.

.

The thing is, if PUI is the one assembling those repop seats- why would they not use the seat buns they themselves make and sell? And instead substitute the most expensive buns on the market?? Just doesn't make sense.

I completely hear you about badly done seats ruining a car-
20 years ago I made a series of uneducated choices regarding bucket seat parts for a set of 69 elcamino seats and I had a shop rebuild them for me.

I used repop springs (crazy stiff) and the worst foam imaginable from OPG. I could barely fit into the car once they were done. After 6 months of hating them I literally sold the car.
That experience actually drove me to start doing seats for myself.


But regarding yours- i think you've got 2 issues.
1. Buns ?
Honestly while i don't like using PUI's buns- i don't think they are 100% of your issue. They don't need to be carved to shape like the OPG ones did. They are just overly firm...

That leads to what i think the real issue is...

2. Those Repop seats have Repop springs in them.
Those repop seats are made by DII, and use the black powder coated DII springs, which in my opinion are the good ones on the market today- but still crazy stiff.

I have had seats where I had to use them, and even with ACI buns, you still sat too high and too far forward- its exactly why i don't like using them.
Even if you were to take the covers off- and put ACI buns on, or Thorntons- i think you are going to have close to the same experience.

This is what I believe is inside your seat:

https://www.carid.com/dynacorn/1968-...EaApZUEALw_wcB

If you look closely at the photo- there 3 rods that run Across the seat springs, one at the rear just before the kickup, one in the middle and one a few loops back from the front.

The rear one is supposed to be there, its on all 66-72 oem lower seat springs.
The middle and the front one should not- they aren't on ANY oem springs i have seen.

Those extra two are greatly increasing the stiffness of the seat bottom by spreading that load to all the springs, and spreading it all the way to the outside too.

The outside and the inside are supposed to be separate so that you get that "bucket" effect sitting "in" the seat vs sitting "on" it.

if this was a seat i was working on for a customer, i would take a pair of bolt cutters and cut that rod out in between the springs they are clamped to... See the pic I attached for where i would cut.

This should help "a little" and doesn't require taking the seat apart completely- you can reach all those spots with the seat out of the car and laying it upside down.

Unfortunately there is nothing as obvious as that on the upper cushion springs.

Beyond that one easy trick i don't have many other suggestions. Its a fine line tweaking springs to relax a little, and relax too much...

Seat track extenders, and cutting/rewelding seat tracks to be lower are what many of my customers who have gone with the TMI or Legendary big bolster bun/cover seats, as those buns are also insanely stiff and also cause this "fitting into the car" issue.

Its really tough because sitting on a workbench, your seats probably look fantastic. If you were to sit on one outside of the car it probably feels fantastic too... its only in the car with the seat in place behind the wheel and under the roof that you experience the issue.

So I'm with ya, and I can see why its making you crazy. There is nothing worse than spending a pile on seats (or a pile having them redone) and then being unable to be comfortable in the car they were made for.

[HWYSTR455]

I will have to get under them and look to see if they have the extra spring, but Like I mentioned before, I had OE springs and replaced the foams and still had the problem.

If you look at the pics, you can kind of see what's going on, but it's still hard to tell. On the bottom pan, you can see where the foam sticks out, and the OE ones didn't have that. And there was a much more pronounced 'bucket' appearance, and the middle seam was also a more pronounced 'V'.

The uprights, about 2/3rds the way up, have a bulge, as well as being too far off the pan, so can only imagine it's the foams.

I included an original interior pic, not very good, but best I could find at the moment.

So you're saying if I remove those springs from the lower pan, it will help, but not make it the way it should be? I agree the foam is too dense, too 'hard', and is part of the problem, but the previous attempts, never ever 'relaxed' enough to make it 'right'.

And nothing can be done with the uprights? One thing I noticed, the uprights lean back way more than original, fairly certain that's an attempt at making the seats more 'acceptable', because I know many that complain about the exact same thing I'm talking about.

And yes, when I was talking to PUI, they said they would use the ACI foams that are specific to the comfortweave covers.

I have 2 different interior guys tell me, the only way to get it 'right' is to trim the foams, so maybe I'm just stuck on that. But I can't live with the way it is now. Totally open for suggestions.


.

[rambow]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I will have to get under them and look to see if they have the extra spring, but Like I mentioned before, I had OE springs and replaced the foams and still had the problem.

If you look at the pics, you can kind of see what's going on, but it's still hard to tell. On the bottom pan, you can see where the foam sticks out, and the OE ones didn't have that. And there was a much more pronounced 'bucket' appearance, and the middle seam was also a more pronounced 'V'.

The uprights, about 2/3rds the way up, have a bulge, as well as being too far off the pan, so can only imagine it's the foams.

I included an original interior pic, not very good, but best I could find at the moment.

So you're saying if I remove those springs from the lower pan, it will help, but not make it the way it should be? I agree the foam is too dense, too 'hard', and is part of the problem, but the previous attempts, never ever 'relaxed' enough to make it 'right'.

And nothing can be done with the uprights? One thing I noticed, the uprights lean back way more than original, fairly certain that's an attempt at making the seats more 'acceptable', because I know many that complain about the exact same thing I'm talking about.

And yes, when I was talking to PUI, they said they would use the ACI foams that are specific to the comfortweave covers.

I have 2 different interior guys tell me, the only way to get it 'right' is to trim the foams, so maybe I'm just stuck on that. But I can't live with the way it is now. Totally open for suggestions.


.

Its really hard to know what to do w/o taking the covers off and seeing exactly what is in there- that would be my first step. I really do think that the buns(whatever they may actually be) are only a part of the problem.

I would probably take the passenger seat out, tear it down and mess with it- then when done swap the tracks and make it the new drivers seat. That way you have the other unmodified seat to compare it with, to gauge if things are getting better or not.

Sounds like you have already been talking to some trimmers about it, so I'd probably move ahead with that plan.

[dataway]

The Legendary covers for my 68 front seats come in tomorrow so I'll be doing this soon.

[roger1]

Originally Posted by dataway

The Legendary covers for my 68 front seats come in tomorrow so I'll be doing this soon.

You brave man!
My seats and new Legendary covers are at the upholstery shop.