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Old 11-27-2022, 03:45 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Default Tool steel lifters

There has been this huge problem with Pontiac (well, all brands) ft lifters being soft junk and wiping out cams.
Tool steel solid flat tappet lifters are available for Pontiacs from Howards. And they are expensive for a ft lifter. BUT you can spend stupid money on some Comp Chevy tool steel lifters with DLC coating, 1900$. These are 400 bucks.
The Howards lifters are listed as GM generic for use in 400-455 engines. You might need custom length pushrods.
I know you can use Chevy sft lifters in a Pontiac. Back in the 80s my first custom Pontiac cam by Dan Whitmore used BBC solid lifter as there was a Pontiac shortage back then. He sold me custom pushrods for that engine. Still have all that stuff.
So it sure would seem like these Howards would fix a big problem for us. I know, they are solids, but if you have good roller rockers and run a stud girdle keeping everything double tight I have found no lash movement.
Dan used to make hft lifters into solids. So someone could be able to make these into hft lifters if they really wanted to. Provided you had the correct parts.
In the picture it sure looks like they have a EDM hole in them. Even though its not listed.
Researching the very expensive Comp tool steel lifters their base models can be used with cast cams. Nitrided or not.
Their higher end DLC coated versions have to be used with steel cams.
And billet steel Pontiac sft cams are not available for us. I even asked Tim G if it was possible to grind down a Pontiac SR cam into a sft cam and it will not work. No cores anyway.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Howards-Cams/...05-16/10002/-1
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Old 11-27-2022, 04:14 PM
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I always ran solid lifters and never really had to reset them. Course I mainly drag raced w them
W light street duty and never felt I needed the girdle even though I owned them they stayed hanging on the peg board .
Unless I was class racing I never felt I needed that little bit of extra area w a roller . Just my .02

However a roller may be a good choice for the issues w oversized lifter bores as some have stated

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Old 11-27-2022, 04:18 PM
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Hopefully Speedmaster will save the day and offer HFT lifters.

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Old 11-27-2022, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Hopefully Speedmaster will save the day and offer HFT lifters.
So do you have any experience with tool steel lifters in a Pontiac ?

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Old 11-27-2022, 06:56 PM
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A number of racer run them because of the high spring pressures they run and because rules say not rollers. Have you checked availability? My understanding is that at this time no one has any.

Stan

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Old 11-27-2022, 07:17 PM
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I would start with Isky,they were selling tool steel lifters when I was a young man.Tom

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Old 11-28-2022, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
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A number of racer run them because of the high spring pressures they run and because rules say not rollers. Have you checked availability? My understanding is that at this time no one has any.

Stan
Jegs say they would ship Dec 2, 22 from the manufacturer.

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Old 11-28-2022, 09:31 AM
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I ordered some lifters from jegs a while back that said shipped from mfg the next week, 6 months later they showed up.

The Howard’s tool steel EDM lifter’s have a part number that ends with a 8 instead of a 5. 91108 instead of 91105. The representative photo’s often don’t represent very well on parts from these big stores, the pic could be a lifter for a Ford and the part is for a BMW.

Most class’s that are limited to flat tappets run nitrided cast cams and tool steel lifters.

I can’t think of any reason why anyone would want to convert a tool steel sft lifter into hydraulic? Too much $$$$!

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Old 11-28-2022, 09:41 AM
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Our SD455 rods are tool steel

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Old 11-28-2022, 09:43 AM
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FWIW… From what I recall, a tool steel lifter on a garden variety cast cam core (no nitriding) will not make the cam last any longer than a high quality steel hydraulic lifter. The tool steel lifter generally shorten’s the life of the cam versus a steel lifter, but on a mild profile that can be after a lot of use, and when the cam does go flat the lifters can usually be reused.

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Old 11-28-2022, 12:49 PM
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Been using Clay Smith cams and lifters in all the builds in my shop. Just completed a F/T cam combo for my street/bracket Firebird. After about an hour of break in time and 15 1/8 mile passes with the break in oil still in this last weekend absolutely no lifter problems

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Old 11-29-2022, 02:00 AM
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Clay Smith anti pump up Pontiac lifters. 291$.

https://claysmithcams.com/pontiac-v8...raulic-lifter/

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Old 11-29-2022, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racegto65 View Post
Been using Clay Smith cams and lifters in all the builds in my shop. Just completed a F/T cam combo for my street/bracket Firebird. After about an hour of break in time and 15 1/8 mile passes with the break in oil still in this last weekend absolutely no lifter problems
Do you still have to remove the inner springs for break in?

That’s why I tend to opt for a roller. I would rather pay the higher price tag than have to mess with valve springs after a break in.

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Old 11-29-2022, 07:13 AM
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I haven't been removing inner springs for break in and have had zero issues. I do however take all other precautions and I've also been running nitrided cams and edm lifters. 50,000+ miles on those setups and no complaints.

In fact one is a solid flat tappet in the z we daily drive with close to 60k miles now. I haven't had to change lash since break in. I check it once a year and it hasn't budged. Just your typical stud mounted rockers with poly locks.

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Old 11-29-2022, 08:14 AM
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I think the clay smith lifters are HLJ’s. Never know if the photo’s are correct on those sites for the application. Often they picture a SBC lifter.

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Old 11-29-2022, 08:20 AM
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A ton of flat tappet applications for other brands just use a single spring and dampener. There is no inner spring to take out. If you don’t want to take the inner spring out on a Pontiac, move up to a beehive or conical.

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Old 11-29-2022, 09:23 AM
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Since the lobes wear at the peek, Cams ought to have Rollers on the lobes.

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
A ton of flat tappet applications for other brands just use a single spring and dampener. There is no inner spring to take out. If you don’t want to take the inner spring out on a Pontiac, move up to a beehive or conical.
If you are using a stiff beehive spring with a lot of seat pressure aren’t you supposed to use a weaker spring for the break in procedure? Same concept as removing the inner.

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:19 AM
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My running buddy tried them on his 500" 383 Charger. They had issues requiring a rebuild and now using a HR.

I know there were some special FT the stocker guys used to use to tolerate the spring pressures for their "cheater cams".

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:20 AM
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Typical flat tappet spring pressures can range from 110-130 on the seats depending on application.

Honestly I've never worried about it much. If you're running more than that for what ever reason it might be concerning. I've never had a flat tappet that I ran more seat pressure on.

As an example I run a Melling hydraulic flat tappet 068 in the bird and used Johnson lifters on that one, with the crower dual springs. I set those up at 130 on the seat because that's the max pressure allowed in PS racing, what my goal was for the engine. I didn't bother removing the inner spring on break in. I also know the springs will lose a fair amount of seat pressure after they are run a while anyway. I'm probably lucky if they are 115-120 on the seats now. I've gone over 40k miles on that combo driving it regularly and have raced the snot out of it over the last 6 years since the cam install. Still whisper quiet and runs perfectly.

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