#1  
Old 04-07-2022, 01:49 PM
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Default How many 1969 Judges were champagne?

I just talked to someone who has a 69 that is champagne, but thought about painting carousel red.

I told him that I thought that color judge was very rare.

Anyone know how many 69 judges in champagne?

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Last edited by thepontiacman; 04-07-2022 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Information
  #2  
Old 04-07-2022, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepontiacman View Post
I just talked to someone who has one that is champagne, but thought about painting carousel red.

I told him that I thought that color judge was very rare.

Anyone know how many?

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  #3  
Old 04-07-2022, 01:52 PM
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Mis type and it won't let edit title.

1969

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Old 04-07-2022, 02:55 PM
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Title fixed to read 1969.

  #5  
Old 04-07-2022, 03:04 PM
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No known exact number. The only tabulations of colors, options, etc on 69 Judges, has been done by a member here on PY. Believe he noted champagne as the lowest production color he has so far recorded. If all real '69 Judges could be accounted for, good possibility that could change.

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  #6  
Old 04-07-2022, 03:47 PM
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Owner double checked color and it is antique gold instead of champagne.

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  #7  
Old 04-07-2022, 06:59 PM
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That is a rare color combo and if he has a real Judge, changing the color to Carousel Red
will devalue the car a lot if it is a correct numbers matching car. Agreed that there are prettier colors on a Judge than Antique Gold.

  #8  
Old 04-07-2022, 09:34 PM
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i have owned 2 of them and both were original paint original owner cars. one had the green stripes and the other had the navy blue red yellow ones.

  #9  
Old 04-08-2022, 05:53 PM
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Please post pics of 69 Champagne GTO Judges.

Honestly, would love to have a 1969 Champagne Judge, let me know if one is out there?

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Old 04-08-2022, 06:03 PM
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Waiting for North to chime in on this one, if I recall correctly he listed Champagne as THE rarest 69 GTO color based on trim tags or PHS or something, so I imagine it wasn’t any more popular on a Judge. Would love to see some pics too.

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Old 04-08-2022, 11:55 PM
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I posted the popularity of all the colors in my thread in the judge section called “General Production Stats and Dealer Order Numbers”. For both Judges and non judges champagne is the lowest count of all standard colors.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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Old 04-09-2022, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
I posted the popularity of all the colors in my thread in the judge section called “General Production Stats and Dealer Order Numbers”. For both Judges and non judges champagne is the lowest count of all standard colors.
Located here http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=828454&page=4

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Old 04-16-2022, 10:21 AM
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I run the 69 Judge Registry and Champagne is the lowest for all the color's produced out of 951 Judge's registered so far. Check out my website as you can see the colors of the cars we have registered.

www.69judgeregistry.com

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Old 04-18-2022, 01:10 PM
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I just double checked my Judges in my listing, Champagne is even less popular than the extra cost colors (Windward and Goldenrod)

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #15  
Old 04-18-2022, 03:20 PM
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Very interesting. Would love to know the breakdown for 70 Judges/GTOs.

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  #16  
Old 04-26-2022, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 RA GTO View Post
I run the 69 Judge Registry and Champagne is the lowest for all the color's produced out of 951 Judge's registered so far. Check out my website as you can see the colors of the cars we have registered.

www.69judgeregistry.com
The 951 total you have so far is too low of a count to make any conclusions up to this point. Many owners of original Judges, myself included, resist having our cars placed on a worldwide list for everyone to see. However, with all this said, I agree champagne is a rare color. With all the fakes running around today, its hard to discern what is real or not and any list of colors is only speculation. The BS on the web is enormous so be careful what you believe.

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Old 04-27-2022, 10:05 AM
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My list of 69 GTO and judges is somewhat shorter, but only has cars with a PHS original invoice or factory (not reprinted) window stickers.

It similarly indicates that champagne was likely the least popular color on Judges in 69. As you correctly state this is not statistically accurate but over 1% sampling collected by posted factory documents during sales and auctions is clearly statistically relevant.

However there are meaningful shortcomings statistically to the overall list. Firstly Judges are over represented by several fold (compared to overall GTO production) and GTO convertibles are doubly represented compared to hardtops, judge convertibles are over represented ten fold compared to their proportion of overall GTO production.

To a lesser degree Ram air non judges and Ram air IV cars are also over represented but not to the same extent as the above mentioned cases.

There are two obvious reasons for this. Firstly the survival rates of the more desirable models is likely much higher (they made 13 LeMans’ for every ten GTO’s but how many LeMans’ do you see on eBay compared to GTO’s?).

Secondly and probably even more relevant is that a regular GTO doesn’t need a PHS to sell the way a Judge does because a regular GTO is authenticated simply by its VIN but a Judge (or say a Ram Air IV car for example) needs to show a PHS for authentication.

So Judges (or convertibles etc) are more likely to have survived than a plain Vanilla GTO coupe but Judges additionally are far more likely to provide factory documents in the ad or listing.

However these probably don’t materially comprise the validity of other data such as color choice, non value critical option take rates (once you correct for Judge over representation etc).

Perhaps some non value critical options do impact survivability to some degree, perhaps AC cars are over represented because hotter climate cars typically had higher survival rates than northern salt belt cars? Inversely perhaps Cordova tops are under represented due to the corrosion problems they amplified in trunk pans and cowl-windshield. 4 speeds perhaps had a lower survival rate due to younger buys more likely to crash or blow them up but 4 speed cars were more likely to be saved due to higher desirability so these two might cancel out.

It’s too bad I don’t have more 69 Firebirds in my PHS collection (I’ve got about 125 or so) because the option take rates on those cars are documented by factory stats. It would be interesting to have about 1,000 of them and then see how much statistical deviation there between a one and a bit percent sampling and actual totals.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #18  
Old 05-04-2022, 11:44 PM
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I think this is interesting on the published 69 Camaro colors (lucky bastages). Tuxedo black and Champagne are tied for the lowest production at 0.6%. The greens were very popular from 67-69 with the muscle car buyers.


1969 Camaro
-----------------------
Color Code (%)
-------------------
Tuxedo Black 0.6%
Butternut Yellow 1.7%
Dover White 7.9%
Dusk Blue 3.3%
Garnet Red 7.7%
Glacier Blue 4.7%
Azure Turquoise 2.7%
Fathom Green 9.4%
Frost Green 11.4%
Burnished Brown 2.3%
Champagne 0.6%
Olympic Gold 6.2%
Burgundy 2.3%
Cortez Silver 6.2%
LeMans Blue 12.4%
Hugger Orange 8.5%
Daytona Yellow 6.7%
Rallye Green 4.9%

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Old 05-05-2022, 04:51 PM
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Took the factory 69 Camaro paint take rate chart (shown in previous post) and compared it to the listings of PHS’s I have. First is 69 Firebirds (less TA) of which I have only 104 so meaningfulness here is sketchy at best. Next is from my 522 judges, probably these numbers are getting pretty indicative as they represent well over 7% of the total. Lastly is 598 non judges.

The reason my totals don’t add up to exactly 100% is my listings include a small handful of PHS’s where the color is not clear enough to be sure of color, I don’t guess so they stay blank.

By the way the listing of all the Camaro colors have a bit of a proviso also. They don’t include the production after they end of the regular August 69 production cutoff. All the 69 Camaro’s built during the normal 70 model run (about 13% of the total 69 Camaros built ) are not reflected here.

Last note is I can’t confirm which, if any, of the Camaro colors listed were extra charge versus no charge.

Sorry if the pic is hard to read or upside down. It’s a screen pic as my printer is AWOL.
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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