#41  
Old 09-29-2020, 09:02 PM
stellar stellar is offline
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It looks like you have found the problem. A close look at the pics seem to show the pinion stop collar has been driven forward moving the retainer ring out of the groove. Best pic is #3 to see it. It looks like I can see the groove and it should be under the pinion stop collar.

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Old 09-29-2020, 09:04 PM
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QS beat me to it .
Stop collar either on backwards or driven forward

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  #43  
Old 09-30-2020, 01:27 AM
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Thanks for the help guys. I know which way to go on mine also now.
By the way, this was one of the best DIY videos I've seen on youtube..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecw3OKQzDns

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Last edited by Greg Reid; 09-30-2020 at 01:48 AM.
  #44  
Old 09-30-2020, 04:30 AM
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I just watched the video. Good general info, but he still has a lot to learn. Don't use dielectric grease in the bushing. He should have replaced the stop collar with a quality one. That one is low quality. Sloppy fit He would have a hard time getting a quality one on the way he did it.

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Old 10-01-2020, 01:20 AM
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I noticed that he did it differently than the drawing in an earlier post showed. Still, it gave me a good general idea of what was missing.
By the way, I was wrong about the thrust washer not having a lip. I had to look very closely with a flashlight while rotating it and only then could I barely see a lip that was no more than .010".

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Last edited by Greg Reid; 10-01-2020 at 01:28 AM.
  #46  
Old 10-04-2020, 01:00 PM
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Removed the starter and took it to the Local starter/alternator expert here in town. I told him I suspected there is an issue with the snap ring and retainer as I can see the groove in the armature shaft where I think the retainer belongs. He looked at it and said it looks ok but that he would disasseble and look further. He pulled it apart and replaced those 3 related components and also replaced the housing end drive while he was at it. He bench tested and said it was perfect. I took it home and also bench tested it several times and it works great. Reinstalled it and that starter still spins after releasing the key and wont stop spinning until I remove the neg battery cable. Just for the heck of it I removed one of the two starter shims to see if that made a difference. It did not make a difference except for the funky noise it made. I reinstalled the second shim and left in disgust. The only component that I have not touched is the neutral safety switch. It is in place on the column and plugged in tight. I think this is where the purple "S" wire goes in to. Dont know if this could have failed and be the problem but I am grasping at straws here???

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  #47  
Old 10-04-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpoltzer View Post
that starter still spins after releasing the key and wont stop spinning until I remove the neg battery cable.
You may have already covered this, but just in case:

Is there only one wire on the "S" terminal? Is there only one (purple) wire on each terminal of the neutral safety switch?

If yes to both questions, can you get the starter into the bad condition and then remove either:
a. the purple wire from the solenoid, hard to do
or
b. BOTH purple wires from the safety switch, both because I don't know which one goes to the solenoid.


Does this allow the starter to quit spinning?

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  #48  
Old 10-04-2020, 02:08 PM
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I put a Jumper clip from the "S" side of the solenoid to the disconnected purple wire that normally goes to that post. I then attempted to start the engine and after releasing the key, the starter continued to spin. I then quickly disconnected the jumper wire from the purple wire and the starter still continued to spin. I then had to disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery in order to get the starter to stop spinning. I think this proves that the solenoid is the issue and not the starting circuit? Is this correct and should I replace the solenoid? Thx.
This test ruled out any possible problem with the purple wire and neutral safety switch.

Any chance your jumper clip moved and touched either of the two big lugs on the solenoid cap?

Clay

  #49  
Old 10-04-2020, 03:01 PM
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Can you start it with the car not in neutral or Park?
The purple wire should only let 12 volts go through it when in 'closed' position which is in Park/Neutral. The ignition switch is what routes 12 volts to the safety switch then to the starter.

How many wires are actually connected to the starter?
Which terminals?

Replaced the ignition switch recently?

When the guy checked the starter was it all together? (solenoid attached)

Take the coil wire off (so engine won't fire) and crank starter. If it keeps spinning even when key is off, you have a wiring problem.
(Or never changed the big spring in solenoid)


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  #50  
Old 10-04-2020, 03:52 PM
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Slack needed can be tested on the bench with plunger return spring removed. Pry the bendix towards the nose and see if the plunger is pushing the disc far enough to make contact with the lugs.
Use a continuity tester across the two big lugs on the solenoid cap when you do this.

You do have to put the solenoid back on without the return spring. Just easier to test for needed slack without the return spring in place.

Only thing I know to do in order to rule out a mechanical problem.

Clay

  #51  
Old 10-04-2020, 03:56 PM
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I don't know why the rebuilder thought that looked OK. I still think it is a problem in the starter from the tests you did. Has it done this with another starter? As of now I am at a loss. I would be happy to examine your starter free if you would care to pay shipping both ways.

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Old 10-04-2020, 04:40 PM
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One other thing, is the starter gear still out when it is still spinning?



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  #53  
Old 10-04-2020, 04:42 PM
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Try adding another shim. If there is not enough clearance the gear may not be able to retract easily which will keep the starter solenoid engaged.


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  #54  
Old 10-05-2020, 04:12 AM
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I think you have a wiring problem. Enough voltage is being supplied to the sol terminal on the starter to keep the hold in winding energised after releasing the ign key; this keeps the starter spinning. Removing a bat lead removes the offending voltage.

To test: hook up a voltmeter to the sol terminal. After starting & releasing the ign key, voltage should drop to zero. If you see a few volts still, it is probably enough to keep the HI winding energised. This would indicated a wiring problem, wires touching, melted together etc.

  #55  
Old 10-05-2020, 01:11 PM
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Thanks for all the great input thus far; I added a 3rd starter shim but still have the same result! I then checked voltage on either side of the coil with the key "Off", both sides of the coil were at "0" volts. Then with the key in the "run" position: negative side of the coil measures .23 volts. Positive side of the coil measures 5.42 volts. Cant do further tests until I find an assistant. What do these results tell us, if anything? Dave

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  #56  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:22 PM
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Sounds like points were closed to me.

No help for the starter problem

Clay

  #57  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:30 PM
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Check the voltage at the purple wire with key on?



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  #58  
Old 10-05-2020, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpoltzer View Post
Then with the key in the "run" position: negative side of the coil measures .23 volts. Positive side of the coil measures 5.42 volts. Cant do further tests until I find an assistant. What do these results tell us, if anything? Dave
I agree with Clay that this is indicative of closed points, BUT .23 volts shows that the points are not as clean as they should be. Should read zero volts.

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  #59  
Old 10-05-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
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Sounds like points were closed to me.

Clay
I agree with Clay, BUT the points are a bit burned. Should read zero volts. Doesn't have anything to do with your starter problem.

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  #60  
Old 10-05-2020, 07:15 PM
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Default Found an assistant!

Hooked the jumper wire to the "S" stud on the solenoid and connected the other end of the jumper to the "red" lead on the volt meter. Connected the black lead from volt meter to the body of the starter. When ignition key is in the start position (for about 1 full second) volt meter reads 9.0 volts. When key is released to "run" position (And the starter is still spinning) volt meter reads 5.8 volts. Starter never stop spinning until negative battery cable is removed from battery. So it appears that voltage is still getting to the purple-solenoid wire when it should not be receiving any voltage.

The yellow "R" wire to the solenoid is tight and is not touching any other wires. Same for the purple wire and then the positive battery cable and the other red 12 gauge wire to the engine harness. Again, the ignition switch is new, the lock cylinder machanism is new as well as the turn-signal switch. Where could that voltage be coming from and where to look?

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