[J.C.you]

Everybody likes a judge story, so here it is.... the other day a old pontiac friend (Troy) that I lost track of shows up on my doorstep to visit and talk about the good old pontiac days when we were younger. While reminiscing about our old ponchos in yesteryears he states that he still has a carb, intake and possession of HO heads that came from a wrecked 71 conv.judge. Bingo! The memories come back from years past on these HO parts.

I know stories like these abound and usually turn out to be a 350 from grandpaws wagon, but there may be alittle merit to this one.

Circa, 1980ish I learned of a susposed low mile 71 convertible Judge motor, that had set for years at one of the area pontiac dealerships. The story I got was only the motor remained in the dealership shop, the totaled car was picked of the rearend, 4 sp tranny and any other good stuff and crushed. During that time gas hogs were frowned on, no one wanted to pony up some bucs to buy an old 455 and the shop foreman at the time didn't seem interested in letting the motor go. I learned of the motor (and car story) thru another poncho buddy that actually worked in the dealership shop during the timeframe. Being from out of town and not wanting to screw the deal on getting the motor, I gave my older brother a call since he was in the same line of business and dealt with the new car dealers in that area. Low and behold my brother said he knew the shop foreman well at the pontiac dealership and would hit him up for the motor.
The next day my brother gave me a call and said he bought the motor from the shop foreman for 100bucs, the pontiac dealership delivered it to his place of business and I could pick it up in a day or two and reimburse him. Alright! I had just scored a judge motor...I thought! A couple of days go by and I went to pick up the motor at my brothers place of employment where the motor was. My brother walked out to greet me acting kind of down. We chit chat a minute, I asked where the motor was and he said a guy named Bo came by, happened to see the engine and he sold the motor to him for 200bucs. I was ticked, but realized he may have needed the money, so i just forgave and went on. Besides blood is thicker than an old motor.

I knew the guy named Bo my brother had sold the motor to. I got ahold of Bo in a couple of weeks to buy it from him, but he had traded the 455 already to another poncho buddy named Troy for a 428. I got ahold of Troy after some time and relayed the story about my brother selling the engine out from under me and how he ended up with it. By that time, Troy had went thru the engine, did alittle portwork on the heads, installed a bigger cam, stuck the 455 in a 69 Goat and street raced awhile. I then lost track of Troy for awhile and what happened to the engine.

Fast forward 15 years or so to the mid 90s. I learned of a guy named Stacy that had some poncho parts and wanted to sell out to run brand x parts. I got in contact with Stacy and struck a deal on all his poncho parts, blocks, heads, motors, misc stuff. I did notice one of the blocks was a WC code 71 455 I stuffed back in the pile and kinda forgot all about it until the other day!

Fast forward one more time to our talk the other day, the conversation came up on the Judge 455 motor Troy had in his 69. Troy told me he sold his 69 Goat rolling, pulled the judge 455, sold the heads to his brother in law, kept the intake and carb all these years, and sold the shortblock to a guy I will call Frank. After a short while Frank had sold the shortblock to a fellow named Stacy! This was the same Stacy I had bought the WC block from!!!! I had owned the judge block for some 18 years and did not know it!

Anyway, the other day Troy sold me the carb and aluminum intake. His brother in law sold the 197 heads to me. I do own a 71 Judge convertible motor after all!...maybe....

I am no carb guru.Here are the numbers off the carb. 7041273 VH 2090. What is it?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Ho Lee Crap !
What a Story

The carb is 71 455HO Manual Trans Ram Air
correct VH code
date is 209th day of 1970 = 1971 model year (very very early 71 model year)


We have the VIN's for most of the 17 Judge Verts - so if you can post or PM me the partial VIN from the engine - be glad to cross check.

Only about a handful of the 17 were 4 spd .

At least 1 of the 4spd J-Verts is reported to have met doomsday way back.
It was Faktry Black - and the only Black one built . iirc


Also possible it wasn't a Real J-Vert ..... but still good stuff regardless .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Actually
should probably keep the VIN confidential for a while.

PM me and i'll check what i have.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

i was shooting from the hip - the Black one that is said to have gotten destroyed was an Automatic.

Only 3 built with 4 speed - #3 is Aztec Gold with Ivory interior and White top.
The other 2 with 4 speed are doing fine.

"" It’s been a long standing rumor that this car was totaled just after it was sold new; within the circle of those who are “in the know”. ""

Some , or all of that , could be true.

[rexs73gto]

I just went into my carb numbers & found that the carb numbers you have listed is for a 1970 455 Ram Air. It may fit some oher engines but I found it first in th section for a 70 455 Ram Air.

[rexs73gto]

It took a bit but I just went through the entire file for the cabs & the only engine it shows for the carb you have given the numbers to are the 1970 Pontiac 455 Ram Air , which some call it a 70 455HO but it is listed as a 455 Ram Air in most books , but it is a 4 blot mian 455 for 1970 , which was the engine you got in late 70 when you blew up your 400 Ram Air IV engine. What they would do is tell you they replaced the bottom end with the 455 block & would just transfer the heads & you would have what would in 71, be called the 455HO but it would run a lot better because even with the longer stroke & bigger displacement the car would run great because the compression was up so you got really a better combo but you couldn't rev the 455 like the 400 but you didn't have to. It didn't happen very much & you would have to have the paper work to prove it was there because it was a replcment engine. I knew one that did get done that way but we did have one at the GTOAA show I think it was in 86-87 not sure the excact year but the guy had all the paper work to prove it & during one of the seminars we were told that was a normal pratice because of the lack of the Ram Air 4 blocks toward the end of the year.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Rex
what are you looking at man ? lol

its a 704 1 273
with VH plant/pick code

[rexs73gto]

7417 if thats the number on the side of the carb, that is what it decodes to right from my CD that I have which decsribes all the cabs 1,2.& 4 bbl carbs with all imformation included. Again it come out as a 1970 455 Ram Air Q-Jet.

[Kenth]

Rex, your source of information is BAD.

BVZ is correct.

[The Boss]

Rex - the carb J.C. has is 1971 455HO/4spd WITH Ram Air. It's the right carb for that motor.

J.C. If the last 4 digits of the VIN are 0268 PLEASE let me know. Thanks.

[Judge273]

Mystery of a lost Jvert in 71 revealed?? All the making of a novel. More please!

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

i was shooting from the hip - the Black one that is said to have gotten destroyed was an Automatic.

Only 3 built with 4 speed - #3 is Aztec Gold with Ivory interior and White top.
The other 2 with 4 speed are doing fine.

"" It’s been a long standing rumor that this car was totaled just after it was sold new; within the circle of those who are “in the know”. ""

Some , or all of that , could be true.

I frequently see the other poncho buddy that worked at the pontiac dealership at the time. This subject has not came up between he and I, but I will ask him what he recollects on the car, etc. I don't know if the shop foreman is still living, but he would be the one to get ahold of.

Thanks on the carb info. At least the carb could be legit. I will try to get a few pics of the carb and intake this weekend. A few more days won't hurt in a good judge story! It's good Friday golfing day!

[Judge273]

As they say: Without docs you got a story. Still its desirable carb and intake to the right buyer.

WC Block or M22 with a legit vin, and a phs to confirm 71 JVert now that's another story!

[OVERULD]

J.C.:
Congrats on an awesome score! That 7041273 carb is mucho-rare. I have one on my 71 H.O./4-Speed/Ram Air car and love it.

Quoting from Cliff Ruggles' "How To Rebuild And Modify Rochester Quadrajet Carburetors" book: In ranking the best Quadrajet carbs he says: " Following closely behind the large-CFM Pontiac Super Duty and 455 Buick carburetors would be the factory Pontiac 455 HO carburetors released in 1971. These were the only factory Quadrajets to not use the outer booster rings surrounding the main nozzles. They were not units that had the rings removed; they were actually special castings where the inner booster ring would extend downward nearly to the bottom of the casting. This was probably done to help improve nozzle efficiency lost from not using the outer rings. However these units proved to be very inefficient off idle and were discontinued after a single-year production run. As with the 1973 and 1974 Super Duty carbs, the 1971 HO carburetors were produced in very limited quantities and are highly coveted by restorers."

Hang on to that prize!!! Take a quick look at it and confirm it is sans the outer rings and you've got the real deal!

BJ

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

It took a bit but I just went through the entire file for the cabs & the only engine it shows for the carb you have given the numbers to are the 1970 Pontiac 455 Ram Air , which some call it a 70 455HO but it is listed as a 455 Ram Air in most books , but it is a 4 blot mian 455 for 1970 , which was the engine you got in late 70 when you blew up your 400 Ram Air IV engine. What they would do is tell you they replaced the bottom end with the 455 block & would just transfer the heads & you would have what would in 71, be called the 455HO but it would run a lot better because even with the longer stroke & bigger displacement the car would run great because the compression was up so you got really a better combo but you couldn't rev the 455 like the 400 but you didn't have to. It didn't happen very much & you would have to have the paper work to prove it was there because it was a replcment engine. I knew one that did get done that way but we did have one at the GTOAA show I think it was in 86-87 not sure the excact year but the guy had all the paper work to prove it & during one of the seminars we were told that was a normal pratice because of the lack of the Ram Air 4 blocks toward the end of the year.

That is interesting because Troy stated the other day one of the valve covers(which he still has and will get to me) had 370hp on the tag, but the heads were 197s on the wc shortblock.

[Tellyshavilli]

Step away from the pipe


QUOTE=rexs73gto;4890037]It took a bit but I just went through the entire file for the cabs & the only engine it shows for the carb you have given the numbers to are the 1970 Pontiac 455 Ram Air , which some call it a 70 455HO but it is listed as a 455 Ram Air in most books , but it is a 4 blot mian 455 for 1970 , which was the engine you got in late 70 when you blew up your 400 Ram Air IV engine. What they would do is tell you they replaced the bottom end with the 455 block & would just transfer the heads & you would have what would in 71, be called the 455HO but it would run a lot better because even with the longer stroke & bigger displacement the car would run great because the compression was up so you got really a better combo but you couldn't rev the 455 like the 400 but you didn't have to. It didn't happen very much & you would have to have the paper work to prove it was there because it was a replcment engine. I knew one that did get done that way but we did have one at the GTOAA show I think it was in 86-87 not sure the excact year but the guy had all the paper work to prove it & during one of the seminars we were told that was a normal pratice because of the lack of the Ram Air 4 blocks toward the end of the year.[/QUOTE]

[Half-Inch Stud]

Nice story. I like the similarities that with mine.

Heard an Autocross T/A dropped a valve, like late 80s, early nineties, So A fella tells me " should check it out.." so I check it out: a 71 455 HO.. All I did was see Round ports and the Q-jet on aluminum ho manifold and said I'll buy it,

Humped it into the trunk after paying on the spot. turned out the Q-JET was a 7043273 for SD455. 71 HO intake was sweet with a no-rust crossover. round port manifolds, SD rods, some dumb n crank, and a 4-bolt block that could take an over bore.

The heads were 197's where the #2 got the exhaust valve head into the squish and dumped anti freeze while being powered around 4000 RPM ( so I was told) in autocross
well I sold the bad head for $100, and gave the good head away for some fella to port to his liking.

[rexs73gto]

I stand corrected I went back & looked at the CD again & because of where it was ao the CD it looked as if it were in the 70 coloumn, but it is in the 71 list for a 71 455 Ram Air. I knew something was wrong because it was a 71 carb by the first 4 numbers but I went with what I saw or so what I saw. The CD I have is from Rocky Rottella so I just figured it was correct because when it comes to carbs he's the man, but it was late & with the way it looked to me it was in the 70 coloumn but it was actually in the 71 section. Sorry I try to not say anything with looking first but this time it was tired eyes that got the better of me.

[GTO JOHN]

Neat story JC. Did you ever find the vin on the WC block? Would be very neat if it was the long lost 4spd Judge vert. http://www.428gto.com/71judge.htm

[J.C.you]

some pics of the carb and intake. Hope the numbers on the carb are legible.

Going to do alittle more detective work on the car before i get back.