[67SS&99SS]

I am still having problems getting my car to crank up. The car is getting fuel, and there is spark at the plugs. I have took a lot of pictures and made a short video so that it may help diagnose a problem I am over looking. Here is what I have done so far.

1. New dash/engine wiring harness from YNZ Yesterday Parts
2. N.O.S. Distributor part #1110284 had N.O.S. points, condensor and rotor button inside, as well as an N.O.S. vacuum advance and cap.
3. N.O.S. Ignition Switch
4. New wires
5. New plugs gapped at .035"
6. New coil.
7. Rebuilt carb.
8. Took generator and starter to rebuild shop to have them checked out. Everything is good with them.

1. I installed the new wiring harness just as it outines in the 62 chassis/shop manual. The only wires I have not hooked up are for the wiper, and the coolant temperature sender.
2. The distributor that was in the car was #1110282. I replaced it with #1110284. The ad where I purchased the distributor said that this distributor is for the low compression 4 cyl. The number on my block is 79Y and the 62 chassis shop manual says it is the lower compression 8.6:1 4 cyl that would come with an automatic trans, which my car has. Before I removed the distibutor, I made sure that I had the engine on 6* BTDC. The top line on the balancer was lined up with the pointer. I covered this line with white out to make it more visable. When I installed the new distributor, I moved the distributor base until I had the rotor button pointing exactly at the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap. Then I tightened down the distributor and put the cap on.













3. I purchased an NOS ignition switch off ebay, and installed it. The threads are slightly messed up so I cannot put my bezel back on it yet. I have to hold it when I crank it over. My horn started working when I replaced my old switch with this one.

4. I installed a new set of 7mm plug wires.

5. I took the plugs back out of the motor, cleaned them, and reinstalled them.

6. Installed new coil. Engine wiring harness lead wire is connected to the + side of the coil, the distributor lead is connected to the - side of the coil.



7. The carb I rebuilt was shot because gas was leaking around the throttle shaft, and it had a lot of play in it. I was scared it was creating vacuum leaks, so I got one from the parts parts store. I bottomed out the idle air screw, then backed it out 1 and 1/2 rounds.



Here is a video of what the car sounds like now when I try to crank it.

[63Banshee]

Something is wrong with the sound on your video... I didn't hear any cussing.

Try jumping it. Sounds like it's turning over way slow.

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

Something is wrong with the sound on your video... I didn't hear any cussing.

Try jumping it. Sounds like it's turning over way slow.

Thats what I thought at first. The guy that checked the starter out said that it was a low torque starter and it was just the starter's nature to turn slow. There has been some colorful language, just not in the video. I have tried jumping it with my 69 C/10 and have took the battery out of my thunderbird to try to crank it. The thunderbird battery has 1,000 cranking amps, and it still wouldn't fire up.

[Peter Serio]

You have changed & replaced so many different things at this point I would simply go "back to basics." Check your fuel, spark, compression & timing. When was the last time the engine was running?

[62eyadams]

Well, it sounds like your battery is low. I'd start by charging it up. Next, I would get a friend to crank it while you check the timing with a gun. On my '62 the timing was about 100 degrees out the in spite of my efforts to find TDC and line up the distributor.

And, although I hate to use it, I would also try starter fluid. If it starts with starter fluid and runs, but then won't re-start, that suggests that your carb needs help.

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by 62eyadams

Well, it sounds like your battery is low. I'd start by charging it up. Next, I would get a friend to crank it while you check the timing with a gun. On my '62 the timing was about 100 degrees out the in spite of my efforts to find TDC and line up the distributor.

And, although I hate to use it, I would also try starter fluid. If it starts with starter fluid and runs, but then won't re-start, that suggests that your carb needs help.

I have a 35 amp fast charge/200 amp starter battery charger. I charged the battery to full charge first then put it on the 200 amp start position and tried cranking it twice and it still will not fire. I will have my dad hold the timing light on it tomorrow when I try to crank it.

When I pulled the plugs today to to the compression check, when my dad turned the motor over, there was a lot of gas coming out of the back cylinder. None out of the other three. The engine appears to me as if it is sitting in the car in a slightly sloped position, being higher in the front than the back. So I assume this is the reason why more gas is getting back there?

Any pontiac people in northeast georgia or the upstate of south carolina?

[azkeebler]

It doesn't sound like it is cranking much slower than mine, however, it does sound a little slow. Should still fire.

Possibilities doubtful or otherwise.

1. Not enough fuel for start-up. Try the starting fluid thing. Just because you have a clear filter(which looks like it is empty in the pic) doesn't mean the carb is letting it in. Floats stick closed , rebuilt or not. Also, It is possible the fuel pump diaphram is weak and not supplying enough and allowing the fuel to return to the tank as fast as it is delivering it. It likely ran before because once it was running, the pump was pumping at a faster rate in order to keep ahead of the bleed back. Just a thought.

2. Being that it does crank slow, is it possible that your engine ground is weak? Check resistance from your engine block to chassis ground with ohm meter. Should at least be near if not 0. The distributor relies on ground as well. I know you say you have spark, however, it is a possibility that the plugs are not grounding in the head if the head isn't getting adequate ground. Obviously , check the surfaces on the head where the plugs mate to make sure they get good ground.

3. It is possible that your cam timing is walking. Pull the distributor cap. Then slowly rotate the crank clockwise and watch when the rotor moves. Now, reverse direction of the crank and again , watch when the rotor moves. You shouldn't have much play in the the distributor between the reversing of direction of the crank. Give ot take 3 degrees. Could be a strecthed timing chain or gear. Even though this sounds unlikely, it is possible. I have had plenty of vehicles that do exactly the same symptoms that you are having, including gas in the cylinder with no fire, and timing gear was worn. ( distributor runs off cam , cam runs off crank, one of these out of time, no worky)

4. Don't be a afraid to play with the timing until you get some sort of life out of it. Some sort of backfire, something, will give you some idea where the problem lies. Even though you have a new distributor, it is possible for the advance mechanism is sticky, stuck, etc. from sitting.Can move against your odds during cranking. I too had the same issue as 62 eyadams. Also, temporarily connect a jumper wire from the pos battery cable to the + on the coil to see if it starts. Your resistor wire may not give the coil enough to power during start up trhough ignition switch. I know , new wiring, still a possibity though.

Keep us posted.

[67SS&99SS]

It doesn't sound like it is cranking much slower than mine, however, it does sound a little slow. Should still fire.

Possibilities doubtful or otherwise.

1. Not enough fuel for start-up. Try the starting fluid thing. Just because you have a clear filter(which looks like it is empty in the pic) doesn't mean the carb is letting it in. Floats stick closed , rebuilt or not. Also, It is possible the fuel pump diaphram is weak and not supplying enough and allowing the fuel to return to the tank as fast as it is delivering it. It likely ran before because once it was running, the pump was pumping at a faster rate in order to keep ahead of the bleed back. Just a thought. I will look into this.

2. Being that it does crank slow, is it possible that your engine ground is weak? Check resistance from your engine block to chassis ground with ohm meter. Should at least be near if not 0. The distributor relies on ground as well. I know you say you have spark, however, it is a possibility that the plugs are not grounding in the head if the head isn't getting adequate ground. Obviously , check the surfaces on the head where the plugs mate to make sure they get good ground. The chassis ground you are referring to, is it the one that is copper and connects the back of the cylinder head or block to the firewall? Should I check the resistance from the bolt that secures it to the firewall to the bolt that secures it to the engine?

3. It is possible that your cam timing is walking. Pull the distributor cap. Then slowly rotate the crank clockwise and watch when the rotor moves. Now, reverse direction of the crank and again , watch when the rotor moves. You shouldn't have much play in the the distributor between the reversing of direction of the crank. Give ot take 3 degrees. Could be a strecthed timing chain or gear. Even though this sounds unlikely, it is possible. I have had plenty of vehicles that do exactly the same symptoms that you are having, including gas in the cylinder with no fire, and timing gear was worn. ( distributor runs off cam , cam runs off crank, one of these out of time, no worky) There is some play in my timing set. When I would move the engine by hand to bring it to 6* BTDC I would have to rotate it back slightly and there was some rotation before the rotor button started going back in the opposite direction. Is there a tensioner in these motors for the timing chain? Could it be possible that the tensioner has broke, and enough slack isn't being taken up in the chain?
4. Don't be a afraid to play with the timing until you get some sort of life out of it. Some sort of backfire, something, will give you some idea where the problem lies. Even though you have a new distributor, it is possible for the advance mechanism is sticky, stuck, etc. from sitting.Can move against your odds during cranking. I too had the same issue as 62 eyadams. Also, temporarily connect a jumper wire from the pos battery cable to the + on the coil to see if it starts. Your resistor wire may not give the coil enough to power during start up trhough ignition switch. I know , new wiring, still a possibity though. When I connect the jumper wire, I do it with the key in the off position, right? I have never done this before and do not want to mess up the new wiring. Should I unhook the resistance wire to the coil when I do this? After I hook up the jumper wire, try to crank it up like normal, right?

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by Peter Serio

You have changed & replaced so many different things at this point I would simply go "back to basics." Check your fuel, spark, compression & timing. When was the last time the engine was running?

About 1 month ago. It ran flawlessly with the carb I rebuilt, timing set at 6*, the new wiring harness, the old distributor, and current coil. I drove it 10 miles, no hiccups or anything. The next weekend, I got the car out to service the trans and differential, and pulled it around to the garage. This is a distance of about 50 yards, and I let the car idle for about 5 minutes before I shut it off. I went to town to get gear oil and transmission fluid, came back and the car would not fire up for anything. Has not ran since then.

Car is getting fuel, I have a clear fuel filter directly in front of the carb inlet. I took all the plugs out today, had my dad turn the engine over and I put my finger over each spark plug hole to check for air coming out. There was. I do not have a compression tester. I haven't put the timing light on it yet. The car has spark, I can ground a plug out and it will spark. Before I put the new distributor in the car, I checked the points. They were set at .016".

[fasteddy]

What WAS the compression reading in each cylinder? Did you notice number 4 as being real low in relation to the others?

[67SS&99SS]

I don't have a compression tester. What I done was put my finger over each hole to see if air was in fact coming out. I will have to get a compression tester this weekend and see what it is across all cylinders. A variance of 10% is acceptable, right?

[Habanero]

Did you take off the oil fill cap to observe the rocker arm moving? oil cap / valve cover is less work than timimg cover.

[67SS&99SS]

The day the car stopped running, I was going to tighten down the rockers a little because they had a faint tapping sound when the engine was running. I had the valve cover pulled and was about to start when the car would not fire back up. All of the rockers where moving like they were supposed to.

[Doug]

Check for bent pushrods!!!!!!!

[67SS&99SS]

What should the exact length be for stock one? I'll take them out this weekend and inspect them.

[beemergary]

I have had hot spark plugs get flooded by gas and never work right again under compression.

[Habanero]

I've been thinking a bout it ,, have you taken b-12 carb cleaner and sprayed into the carb and then crank it over , if it starts to jump like its going to fire then it's fuel related,,, cause if you got fuel , spark, compression , and the timing didn't jump a tooth it should fire,, my 61 tempest had sat for a while and the fuel pump went bad but you said you had fuel to the carb,, but the carb could be sticking,,, cause when i rebuild carbs i put the old needle and seat valves back in( with in reason ) cause the new ones sometimes stick on me,,,. your video , the motor didnt appear to try to fire ,, try the B-12 and crank it over and let us know if it jumps like it going to start.

[beemergary]

I have had hot plugs get flooded out and never fire right under compression again.

[67SS&99SS]

No updates yet. Still trying to find all of the timing components. Does anyone know where I can get the bumpers, and spring for the timing set? After looking at the manual, it looked like these put tension on the chain. I have found one bumper, but still need the other side, and I need the spring as well. I have the cam gear, crank gear, chain and timing cover gasket set. I do not want to tear it down until I have all of the parts I need.

this is the bumper I have.

[67SS&99SS]

Put a jumper wire on it today from the positive side of the battery to the positve side of the coil. Still wouldn't crank. Put the N.O.S. distributor back in it, changed the coil, and changed the plugs twice. I put fresh gas into the carb, and tried starting fluid as well. I'm completely clueless now. I had my friend come over, whom is an excellent mechanic for 50s and 60s gm vehicles, and he went over everything I done to the car as well as tried a few new things and it stumped him as well. I believe the term he used was it didn't defeat me, but I'm retreating for now.