[Nobuddy]

If the lifter can spin it is below the guide plate.

Seems to me the dimensions for the width as machined and height adjustment are unlikely to fit all blocks. Will be nice if it does, just looks unlikely without custom fitting.

[grivera]

Correct - the flat spot on the lifter corresponds with the machined angle in guide plate so as long as the dimensions of cam base-circle do not let lifter ride below the point where flat spot is no longer in line with the plate, the lifter should not rotate. Randy has explained this is limited to a certain range of base-circle sizes.

[69 Limelight]

1980 TA if I'm reading your posts (#'s 93 and 96) correctly and when the lifters get on base circle of cam the "flat" on lifter is below the plate that is supposed to keep them positioned, I can tell you that will NEVER work and is a catastrophie waiting to happen when you fire engine. You're right in putting in a phone call to Randy and I wouldn't go any further until you talk to him. I suspect you cam has too small of a bese circle to work with his system and you'll have to get different cam. Would some of you professional engine builders verify what he has posted and see if I'm right and save him from disaster, please?

[Murf]

Bringing it back to the front page.
1980 TA do you have anything new to add?

You scared me enough, I took mine back apart to double check. 😁 Better safe than sorry! Mine seems OK. It will be interesting to hear what’s going on with yours.

Good luck!
Murf

[1980 TA]

I had some time to play with it this afternoon.

I took everything loose on the plate, bottomed out the adjusters, and snugged the plate down. Rotating the engine every 90 degrees, I checked every lifter that was sitting at its lowest point. I rocked them back and forth making sure that they contacted the plate and could just slightly wiggle like Randy showed in a video.

They all passed this test. Some were extremely tight with no wiggle but most could rock back and forth slightly.

I then checked them all for clearance and about 1/2 had .002 clearance and the rest were in full contact with the plate.

If I loosened the the lock nuts snugging down the plate at all, several lifters would not pass the original test and would spin in a full circle at their lowest point.

I am not comfortable with the uber thin margin for error at this point.

I was thinking a little tension on the lifters was not a bad thing, possibly, as the plate is flexible enough that if I apply any upward pressure at all, I can get .002 feeler gauge in easily. When turning the motor over with a ratchet, you can hear several lifters hitting the plate as they come up and I saw two of them hang and not come down under the pressure of the valve spring.

The cam is a Howards Cam, 414345-12. It specs out at .560/.560 lift, 227/237 @.050 and a 108 Centerline.

It was bought through Randy to work with the plate and lifters he provided.

I'm not gonna risk firing it up as I'm not convinced its safe.

[Murf]

After I posted, I went out & fooled with mine some more. It’s pretty fiddle isn’t it. I thought mine were good & I found I could turn one like you did.

It seems as though the bores aren’t very constant. I ended up tightening up the clearance to .002 to .005. Seemed like about the best compromise I could get.

Hope yours works out. I hope to have mine running this weekend.

Murf

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

I had some time to play with it this afternoon.

I took everything loose on the plate, bottomed out the adjusters, and snugged the plate down. Rotating the engine every 90 degrees, I checked every lifter that was sitting at its lowest point. I rocked them back and forth making sure that they contacted the plate and could just slightly wiggle like Randy showed in a video.

They all passed this test. Some were extremely tight with no wiggle but most could rock back and forth slightly.

I then checked them all for clearance and about 1/2 had .002 clearance and the rest were in full contact with the plate.

If I loosened the the lock nuts snugging down the plate at all, several lifters would not pass the original test and would spin in a full circle at their lowest point.

I am not comfortable with the uber thin margin for error at this point.

I was thinking a little tension on the lifters was not a bad thing, possibly, as the plate is flexible enough that if I apply any upward pressure at all, I can get .002 feeler gauge in easily. When turning the motor over with a ratchet, you can hear several lifters hitting the plate as they come up and I saw two of them hang and not come down under the pressure of the valve spring.

The cam is a Howards Cam, 414345-12. It specs out at .560/.560 lift, 227/237 @.050 and a 108 Centerline.

It was bought through Randy to work with the plate and lifters he provided.

I'm not gonna risk firing it up as I'm not convinced its safe.

Dude that sucks.
Did you talk with Randy? I was under the impression he had different lifters based on the cam circle dimension. Was wondering if you got the correct lifters.

How high does the flat of the lifter stick up from the bore? Any chance you can still use the spider method?

[1980 TA]

I've tried to reach Randy by phone and by email for a couple of weeks now with no response.

If you have any info on the spider method, I'd look at that. I'm about ready to go with a linked lifter which means I'm eating lifters and push rods. My lifter is .400 above the bore.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

I've tried to reach Randy by phone and by email for a couple of weeks now with no response.

If you have any info on the spider method, I'd look at that. I'm about ready to go with a linked lifter which means I'm eating lifters and push rods. My lifter is .400 above the bore.

I believe in another thread I posted the ford spider part numbers.

[1980 TA]

I found the ford part numbers (comp cams 31-1000) and a video showing how to set them up. At under $60 I'll order one tomorrow and see if I can get that to fit better.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

I found the ford part numbers (comp cams 31-1000) and a video showing how to set them up. At under $60 I'll order one tomorrow and see if I can get that to fit better.

1980 TA, can you post a link to the video, please ?

Murf

[400 Lemans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAKTh3uWBrE

[69 Limelight]

1980 TA, that really sucks that Randy won't return your calls or e mails after he developed this system and touted how good it was and here your are having a little problem and he won't help you through it. (Don't see that happening with Butler.) Especially, since it sounds like you bought complete system from him. Know you're close and would like to get engine running but since we're about to end of driving season I would't give up now and spend more money going in different direction. He should make it right and work or give you your money back. I think quite a few guys have been considering his system (know I have) but in my mind this is a deal breaker. Anybody else agree with me>

[Jay S]

Well I can’t speak for Randy at all. But for whatever reason the plate is to wide and is not able to lower enough to engage with the dog bone grooves on the lifters. It has to be set so that it keeps the lifter from spinning and not able to bind up at all times.

It is also possible Howard’s accidentally ground your cam with small block journal. It can happen, if that was the case the base circle would be to small and the lifters won’t work, they will leak.

I can’t speak to this Howard’s cam, but I checked the 2148 lifters on a .3823” lift lobe on an engine and the bottom oil groove was slightly below the lifter boss (it would have leaked) and the top oil groove was about .030” above the boss, it was not close to working. This Howard’s cam has a .373” lift lobe, not a much smaller. Running that much lift needs checked pretty meticulously for leakages.

If you run out of clearance and can not get the plate to engage the lifter on the base circle, you will need to machine the edges down so the plate drops down enough to keep all the lifters aligned. It is better to have it on the loose side of tolerance than to tight, it can not drag or hang up. You could either measure the clearances, record them and give the tighter lifters more clearance with a grinder, or have a machine shop mill each side down some so the plate fully engages the alignment groove on the lifters.

The Ford dog bones are very loose when used on a Pontiac, imho, they do not fully engage like they do when used on a Ford, and the dog bone doesn’t set on the lifter boss surface very nice. You can make them work, but I think your going to find it lets the lifters rotate more than Randy’s plate system. Just my guess but you could likely do some careful hand grinding on the plate and it would still have tighter clearance than the dog bone set up. I have a new Ford dog bone system if you have any trouble finding one.

[1980 TA]

The video is the one I found.

I purchased everything from Randy as I did not want to have learn about base circles and such and figured buying all of the parts from one source should have alleviated the guess work.

I understand about dragging. With the adjustment nuts as low as possible and the cinch nuts hand tight, 6 lifters would not follow the cam under the pressure of the valve spring. When I loosen the cinch nuts, you can hear the lifters fall and hit the came. If the cinch nuts are not on, the #2 exhaust does not hit the plate at all.

I really liked the design of the plate as it seemed so simple and elegant. I would think a person needs at last half of the plate "contacting" the lifter at the bottom of its stroke to allow some margin for error.

I really like the idea of the linkless lifters and will probably buy a dog bone set up to play with while I think/work on the plate. Whichever one seems to have more room for error when I get done fitting them, will be the one I go with.

Thanks to all that have responded. I have learned more than I wanted to. Hopefully my struggles will help someone else along the way.

On a slight rant, it sucks that is has taken over a year to even get to this point.

[Murf]

Well, I said I’d post up after I got it back together.
Seems to be OK so far. I haven’t be able to drive it cause the weather’s sucking right now.
Hopefully I will get to drive it some by the weekend . It’s supposed to warm up & dry out.

I can’t really say anything one way or the other but at least it’s back on the front page.

Wish me luck!
Murf

[grivera]

Thanks Murf - I realize you haven't driven it but did you fire-up the engine?

[Murf]

Originally Posted by grivera

Thanks Murf - I realize you haven't driven it but did you fire-up the engine?

Sorry Will, I wasn’t very clear. Yes, I had it running for about an hour total. Not much to report though.

Can’t really speak much about noise as the whole reason I tried this setup was to be able to use Rhoads lifters. So of course, it’s noisier than before but it seems about the same as the Roads’s I’ve used before. Time will tell.

Murf

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Murf

Sorry Will, I wasn’t very clear. Yes, I had it running for about an hour total. Not much to report though.

Can’t really speak much about noise as the whole reason I tried this setup was to be able to use Rhoads lifters. So of course, it’s noisier than before but it seems about the same as the Roads’s I’ve used before. Time will tell.

Murf

Thanks - did you use their V-Max version?

[Murf]

Originally Posted by grivera

Thanks - did you use their V-Max version?

ETA, I used the V-Pro like Jay mentioned down thread. I kinda like adjusting them with a feeler gauge like the directions say.. Easy & seems kinda reassuring actually gauging them. Sound silly don’t I?

Anyway they seem to have done their thing. I’ve now got clickey lifters & 4 inches more vacuum at idle. I hope the driving manners are improved too.

Murf