[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Just watched the 3 minute partial resto progress video from rics restorations -
they said the Kaih has Saddle interior
my goof about Sandalwood

[Diego]

This car is in the Tim Wellborn collection.

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Link and pictures to Bet Winners/Uncle Judges former old Silver 4speed

Stated as 1 of 11 four speed JVerts
1 of 17 total

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...D=SC0508-65973

[Diego]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

There's also the barn find black 70 RAIV Judge 4-speed convertible at the MCACN show this year. But perhaps that was the owner (or person) Diego was talking to that started this thread?

Yes, as it originally was Pepper Green.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Here is a link to the VERY INTERSTING article by J Heasley about the Pepperidge Green Car.
Anyone who hasn't read it - you should. Its short and sweet.
we all should have a girl like Samantha

http://www.hotrod.com/muscle_car_rev...ble_rare_find/


I can see where/how the numbers have gotten scrambled up and misconstrued in that article. and in other instances abroad in other forms.
6 four speeds was just the number that Telly had personal knowledge of at minimum - not the number built. i think that got taken the wrong way , perhaps.

But these folks have 2 of them regardless.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I can see where/how the numbers have gotten scrambled up and misconstrued in that article.

The purpose of why I started this thread is because, as far as I can tell, "Pontiac built just 18 of them: 12 with automatics and 6 with four-speeds" is undocumented, numbers transformed or not.

Additionally, the owners of said car sold it just before the show, so they only own one.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

1. Where did this prevailing wisdom of about 18 cars come from?

2. Where did people get the idea more automatics were built?


So we probably have part 2 answered.
At least where it surrounded from around the PepGrn car/article.

But part 1 is still waiting.
I'm sure Fred must have concluded and confided the total to someone. Even though it isn't defined on that one worksheet, i bet he had the number.
But is it 17 or 18

ima guess Unk J, Ram4King, G.Cave, or the restorer in upper VA/lower MD probably got that number from Fred at some point back when. Or one of the HPP staff.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

2. Where did people get the idea more automatics were built?
So we probably have part 2 answered.
At least where it surrounded from around the PepGrn car/article.

I had at least one conversation with someone at MCACN who parroted the same thing, and I am sure he knows enough about this stuff not to have relied on the article by mistake.

I'm sure Fred must have concluded and confided the total to someone.

I don't see any good reason why Fred would do so much research yet keep some things in confidence. I feel things were inconclusive for some reason.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

As far as the ratio - my thought is its like the old shampoo/conditioner commercial.
Mr.X makes a brief statement somewhere about 6 (being known) - and its taken out of context.

2 guys hear it, they tell 2 friends, then they tell 2 friends -
it gets around. Just like other stuff gets around.
Some guys have been following these hi-profile cars for decades.
And Mr.X is well known and well versed - so its gotta be right.
even tho they probably took the original statement wrong to start with

----------------------

Fred would have had that total done. Its a hi-profile numeric for GTO.
We all make oversights as we get older and older in our paperwork.
The papers you guys are circulating are not all of his notes, that hand made graph is a quick compilation of other notes condensed.

My "theory" is someone likely immediately noticed the omission and questioned Mr.Fred - and got the tabulation. Why its rolling between 17 and 18 is odd.
71 was 17 total , people get mixed up. Maybe thats in the mix.

But without a factoid from Fred - there would be no 17 or 18 to even roll back and forth.

I'm with you - i'd like to know which is right - 17 or 18.
And when / where was the info garnished from Fred.

Does McCarthy's or Eric's books cover the 70 IV Judge ?

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

As far as the ratio - my thought is its like the old shampoo/conditioner commercial.
Mr.X makes a brief statement somewhere about 6 (being known) - and its taken out of context.

Heasley's article was the first time I had seen someone make the claim that more automatics than sticks were built. I figured he flipped the stats by mistake, but my chat with a Pontiac guy in MCACN made it seem that Heasley was right.

But, when it comes down to it, I don't think the number is documented either way. I have never seen any documented number, and I am away from home so I can't access Pete's or Eric's book at the moment, but I doubt they have the RAIV Judge convertible numbers.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I never heard anyone say before that there even was an OrbitO IV JVert built or in existence. I'm really pleased to know that - seemed there should have been AT LEAST ONE of them - but never heard a peep about it.

Why have there been 3-4 threads regarding this PeppyGreen car and not 1 word or 1 picture about an OrbitO IV 4spd JVert that was at the same show ?


W T F

Is this what you are talking about?

[roundportponchos]

there is an auto raiv orange judge convt in illinois. Also a non judge orbit convt, auto ..

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I'm thinking broader than the article.
But Telly was the western NY go-between mentioned in article. fwiw

Several tight circles in the hi profile poncho world.
If one circle gets a mixed signal - it gets spread out.
Can even spread into other circles.
The shampoo commercial effect kicks in all along the way regardless.
These guys have been following these things for decades.
The chat you had could have went the same tone with that same person, even if it took place 10 years ago instead of at the show recently.
Is my point.

And i'm not blaming or crediting Telly with anything -for the record - other than hooking Samantha up with an IV JVert.

Whoever sold the Blue/Blue/White Auto had some pretty detailed info.
The kind of info - if true - would have had to be a culmination of a factoid from Fred (totals built) , and a factoid of Jim M (how many have been PHS requested).

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

Is this what you are talking about?

YES
Thank you Sir.
Thank You

[GOAT WHORE]

That car is a 4spd also owned by Wade Ogle from California.
The story I heard was the original owner was a black man and wanted the brighest "gold" color he could get. Wade does also own Milt's tripple black 69 vert RAIV.
The picture above was from the GTOAA Nat's this year, best of show.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by roundportponchos

there is an auto raiv orange judge convt in illinois. Also a non judge orbit convt, auto ..

Great info RPP. Thanks for helping us out.

6 sticks
3 autos

3 to go

5 left to find in the bushes and barns

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Came across a lot of varying numbers while hunting down these links on these cars.
But mostly the number 6 pops up a lot. On both sides of the tranny coin.
Seen 17 18 and 19 for total.

This is a good topic.
I hope we can find some solid ground.

Here is one of them that had my marbles grinding.
The Granada Gold Automatic in NY
and i'm still thinking an Atoll Blue 4spd was done in an article back when.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/...feature15.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Pontiac...-/300666372382


But we have covered 6 Sticks and 4 Autos now, so far.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Found a couple shots of the other Green 4spd in finished form.
Looks to be Green interior too.

[The Boss]

Here are some more of that car BVZ. Nice one for sure.

Not that it has any bearings on the conversation here but his license plate says ONEOFSIX .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The best looking one so far is this Black one.
Hot diggity dog up on that jewel
i'd rub the chrome off the back bumper

Also found an ad print version of the BW/UJ Silver car.

[GOAT WHORE]

Wow, that silver add car looks bad ass!