[LATECH]

OK. Well all I found and My memory recalls is that this IS the correct one.
I do see variations , but they appear to be for B body (big car)

This is the one that I recall, and the OP stated he had a 4 wire job so....

[LATECH]

Thanks for posting the Picture as I could not figure out how to do that. It will be usefull to all here.

[Old Goat 67]

All I'm saying is that sometimes even if a relay LOOKS correct, they are made differently inside of the enclosures. Seen it too many times before.

In those cases one has to figure out what the operational configuration really is.

What it could be is a mystery as the wiring is not stock and therefore you have the human element involved.

Time to trust a VOM, but does the OP have that knowledge?

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by LATECH

Thanks for posting the Picture as I could not figure out how to do that. It will be usefull to all here.

That's a little program I found years ago called ABBYY Screenshot Reader. Lets you copy any portion of the screen or read text and post.

Want a copy, PM me.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

TYPICAL, but is it actual?

Looks right compared to the relay pic that was posted earlier.



Problem here is the horn blows with the black wire, from relay to horns, UNPLUGGED.

Clay

[Mickey_London]

The photo of the relay is what is on my car.
A 1970 Firebird. The original poster has a 1971 Firebird

On my car the green wire goes through the bulkhead, changes to a black wire which then connects to my horn push
The black wire from the relay goes to my horn sounder
I have a red wire which is the 12v feed wire
And the 4th wire is black/pink for the buzzer

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Mickey_London

The photo of the relay is what is on my car.
A 1970 Firebird. The original poster has a 1971 Firebird

On my car the green wire goes through the bulkhead, changes to a black wire which then connects to my horn push
The black wire from the relay goes to my horn sounder
I have a red wire which is the 12v feed wire
And the 4th wire is black/pink for the buzzer

OP described his as being the same in post #5 of this thread.
The OP's horn blowing with the black wire unplugged...Tells us something is wired up wrong or shorted out to power under the hood.

Good job on color coding the terminals.
Clay

[dpoltzer]

Tonight I disconnected the asymmetrical connector with the one black and one green wire from the relay. I then ran my test light from the + side of the battery to the black terminal in the connector. The test light did not illuminate. (Don't know if it makes a difference but I did have the black wires to the actual horns disconnected while I did this test.) What does this test indicate?

[dpoltzer]

And thanks guys for posting those pictures. The color coding on the picture is exactly the way mine is set up!

[Mickey_London]

Hook up the test light again, the way you did it.
Then with another piece of wire hook that up to the other terminal (green in the picture )
Then with the other end of this wire touch it to a good ground on the car. The relay should click and the light should come on
This will show the relay is working
Mick

["QUICK-SILVER"]

First post said horn blows with black wire UN-plugged. This means it has power on it.

Hook test light to negative/ground/earth and see if it lights up when you probe the black wire at the relay connector. We know the black wire at the horns has power on it when it shouldn't have. Got to find out why. Power is getting to it from something besides the relay.

Wild guess
The two ends may not be the same black wire. Small grounds or power connections may have gotten switched at the battery terminals.

Clay

[LATECH]

Originally Posted by dpoltzer

Tonight I disconnected the asymmetrical connector with the one black and one green wire from the relay. I then ran my test light from the + side of the battery to the black terminal in the connector. The test light did not illuminate. (Don't know if it makes a difference but I did have the black wires to the actual horns disconnected while I did this test.) What does this test indicate?

You did this correctly. 100%. the only thing is that you should have pushed the horn button with the tester hooked up as that is the circuit you are testing. The test outlined tests the black wire up to the horn switch and its operability.

[LATECH]

The green wire is for the horns (+12 volts). It is the circuit that the relay is in control of. It should not be powered untill the relay coil is energized(black wire to ground at horn switch)

Next plug in all the wires to the horn relay. Then probe the green wire to see if it has power.

Then unplug it and check it for power on the wire itself, and also at the relay where it plugs in. Neither should have power.

Here is a thought. Plug the green and the black back in. Unplug the other 2 wires on the horn relay and see if the horn stops.

Post back what you find.

[LATECH]

I would unplug the horn and put a light bulb /test light on the horn plug to indicate power , so you dont go deaf trying to figure it out.

You can rig up a 1156 by soldering 2 wires to it, or if you have an extra socket for one , just plug in one end and ground the other.
Or use another test light.
I have about 5 test lights, 2 regualer bulb style, 2 logic probe (red green LED 1meg ohm internal) and a power probe III

I love my power probe

[LATECH]

Sounds like few guys here have backwards wiring on their rides.

[LATECH]

How the circuit/relay works:

terminal 1 is power feed.It goes to the coil winding, and both the upper and lower points contact arm.all 3 have 12 v + all the time

terminal 2 is the black wire to ground at the horn button.It is grounded when mashing the horn button

terminal 3 is power to the horns (green)(horns are self grounding)

terminal 4 is to the ignition lock cylinder key- in ignition switch and the door switch in a series circuit configuration. Both switches need to be closed to complete the circuit (allow current to flow)

A dot on the wiring diagram signifies a electrical connection,look at the relay coil . It has a dot on the spot where it touches the upper point/contact arm.The half circle at the lower points contact stand (nail shape thing) signifies a jump of that piece and is not a connection.



To make the horn blow , press the horn button . This completes the circuit from terminal 2 to ground, through the relay coil to the upper contact arm which also has one end of the relay coil winding hooked to it, where the other end of coil winding is hooked to at terminal number 1 (also notice the upper points contact/arm on the same circuit )

This pulls the point contact arm down touching the contact post for terminal 3 (the nail looking thing in the picture ,lower points contact/arm) powering up terminal 3 that feeds the horns. The lower set of points/contact arm assembly is a normally open , meaning they rest in the "Off" position
When they "Close" it completes the circuit and current flows to the horns.

For the key in ignition buzzer, it is as follows the power flows to the relay coil, then to the upper point arm , passes through and on to terminal 4. Then a switch at the key needs to be on (key in ignition closing contacts) and ALSO the door switch needs to on (door open switch grounded) .That activates the circuit.

How does it buzz you ask.?

The power flows in the circuit as long as the upper points contact is touching (circuit on) .That set of points is normally closed, meaning always conducting/turned on. well, when the circuit is active , the relay opens the upper points contact, which de energizes the circuit and the points close, power up the circuit again.It does this real fast, like may times a second,and by doing this it causes the relay to make a buzzing noise.

Hope this helps

[dpoltzer]

Thanks for all of the excellent input guys. I will run the tests Thursday evening. Dave

[unruhjonny]

i never understood how the key buzzer worked, and because of this i could never trouble shoot it not working(!);
Now I can... when I get the car back together.
lol

[dpoltzer]

Post 33 tests: With all wires connected to relay, the horn blows constantly. I then removed just the orange wire to the relay and the horns now stopped blowing. What is strange is that in my earlier post I indicated that the horns continued to sound even when the asymmetrical connector (Black and Green wires) was removed. This is no longer the case! (Note: I did remove the horn spring and plunger under the steering hub) The next test: with the Black and green connector disconnected, I probed each of the corresponding relay terminals with my test light and neither terminal had power. This is what LATECH said should occur. Next test: with the black and green connector disconnected from relay; neither wire in the connector had power. I am as confused as ever now with this!

[Mickey_London]

You now say that the horn is not constant now you have plugged in the green and black connector, so what I would do is to make sure my fuses are good and not blown

Another thing to check, for elimination purposes, is that the green wire is not grounded out.
If you have a multimeter, set it to the Continuity symbol
This is this symbol, just in case you are not sure


With one lead from the tester in the Green terminal the other needs to be touched to a good ground on the body work
There shouldn't be any continuity until you press the horn

Also check continuity between the black wire connector and the terminal at the horn sounder. This should have continuity, as it should be the same wire.

Now with the Orange wire plugged in, and the green and black connector disconnected, check the wire terminal that goes to the horn sounder to see if there are 12 V. There shouldn't be 12 Volts here

Perhaps you have the wrong wire going to the horn press or the wrong wire at the horn sounder
Just a thought
Hope you sort this soon
Mick