[KS circutguy]

I'll take a T-350 or T-400 with a Gear Venders under-overdrive any day in a classic GM car.
That said, I've driven 400,000 miles on my old Dodge colt 4speed and 1970 GTO 4-speed - Ford Cortina 4-speed.

[RocktimusPryme]

I have both, and make it a point to have both. Though I would say that if you told me I could only have one hot rod, it would be a manual.

I get lazy sometimes too, and automatics do tend to be easier on parts, so there is an economical factor, but lets face it. Nobody gets excited about putting it in drive. Banging it into 2nd is a different story. So is dropping it off the trans brake, but thats probably not what we are talking about.

I agree when you say it bothers you that people who prefer automatics are seen as lesser. Like I said, I have two auto cars as well.

Now with that said, how I would more delicately put it is that someone who seeks out an automatic specifically is making a decision for comfort 90% of the time. Is making a comfort decision over visceral driving feel really hot rodding? I would argue not, and I think thats where a lot of it comes from. I also think that just like a lot of other stuff in the automotive world, its spouted by guys who buy T shirts at swap meets instead of parts, and dont even own a car. So who cares what they think?

[MUSLCAH]

I can cruise...sipping on my Dunkin Donuts Hot Coffee while in traffic or the Highway ....suits me fine..in the Goat.

[lfdsteve]

I enjoy my Tremec on the back roads. Highway is a push. The “Dream Cruise” with a stick absolutely sucks, I park and watch.
To each their own I guess. The only thing I would add is that if your an “auto guy”, it really doesn’t matter what they’re pushing the price of stick cars to, does it? Don’t worry about what the guys at mecum think. 90% of them are minimum wage lackies. Do you own a classic because you like it or because you think it makes you look cool? Do you and be happy!

[400 4spd.]

If I lived or worked in a large metropolitan area with heavy traffic congestion like some you do, I would not want to drive a stick car either. Where I live you have to leave town to find heavy traffic, about 90-100 miles south, west or north, with water to the east.

[65madgoat]

So much more fun....

[MJZ]

I used to prefer manual but after a 65 Vette with a 396 (hot SOB), no a/c, no PB PS, basically no firewall, rotisserie side pipes and a ridiculously stiff clutch in 5:00 traffic, that did it.
The thing I don't get is paddle shifters without a clutch. Why would anyone want that, 50 % of the enjoyment is the clutch.

[Formulabruce]

I think that men, going back to the 1960's like to think their car has more power than it does.
To measure that isn't realistic, BUT... BREAKING TRACTION is "quick visible" "proof?"
80% of people who have their ( any V8 engine) rebuilt will have it modified when they only
need some smaller updates. Why? Braging rights? or breaking traction... yeah breaking traction..
Also many MANY folks with a stick shift feel like they have to "help" their engine get the car rolling.
I cite the folks who rev the engine UP and DOWN as they SLIP the clutch in an out. You will see this a LOT on Bikes,
but I saw it many times on musclecars just TWO DAYS ago. Yeah that smell behind the car was.....Clutch DISC.....
In the 70's in high school "Can it burn rubber in second gear" was braging right to its power, NOT the bald bias ply tires ???
That mentality, is Still with the same folks in their 70's TODAY!
I like both auto and stick , but the FUN of a stick ENDS in stop and go traffic, and drag racing clutches "just because I'm in there" is just stupid...

[kingbuzzo]

If the stick is slower AND drives down prices for automagics...it's a win-win for me lol

Be one with the car stick guy, but not with yer gal or a squshy...haha

Just jokes...

[PAUL K]

How do you tell if a Muscle Car has a big block or a small block..... if it almost dies when the clutch is let out it's a small block!

[Sirrotica]

Paul, howzat work out for Pontiacs then???

They are neither?

but they have diesel torque, and run gasoline.....noidea:

When I was young, we would line up 2 of our cars side by side, and idled along in 4th gear next to each other, and drive slower, and slower, until one of the cars started bucking. If your car was still idling the slowest, without bucking, you won. I won that race a bunch of times with my 65 GTOs.

[Half-Inch Stud]

So yea, howsbout a factory 4-speed car with an automatic, clutched Converter, that ya shift manually ?!

[dataway]

I think it all depends on what kind of oil you use in the engine.

And ..... GO!

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Agree completely with this. The time frame the car was built is a big factor too. When talking about Pontiac cars specifically, I wouldn't own one with an automatic prior to 1965. An old GTO with a 2 speed? No thank you. A 61-64 full size with a Slim Jim. Had 2. Sold them BECAUSE of the transmission. Old Bonneville with a 4-speed Hydramatic, again, better than a Slim Jim, but not for me. Once the 400 Turbo entered the picture, it was a game changer for GM. I am sure there is someone out there that will argue the Slim Jim was the greatest automatic transmission ever. I will stick to a manual trans in those older models.

I'm not saying you can't make one perform, I can do that, But no matter what I would do, the 3rd pedal and shifter would be missing. I like 4 speeds in performance cars. I'm past the days of racing but still want the memories of a stick.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by necdb3

I'm not saying you can't make one perform, I can do that, But no matter what I would do, the 3rd pedal and shifter would be missing. I like 4 speeds in performance cars. I'm past the days of racing but still want the memories of a stick.

Re-visit Post # 17 for those fondly memories. . there are 4- functioning Pedals & the Competition Plus.

[Heybuck]

My first car was a '39 Ford Deluxe Convertible. Manual of course. First paying job was with Budget rent a car so all day I was driving manuals and automatics. Never bothered me all what I was driving.

I drove a manual car for years because that was provided by my employer then later I got automatics. My wife learnt to drive on a manual but she has only ever had automatics since she got her first car.

So when my 3 daughters all became of an age to teach them to drive, I insisted they learn on a manual. No arguments accepted. When they bought their own cars, they could choose what they wanted. The rationale being if you can drive a manual, you can drive anything. They are all excellent drivers today.

First daughter was at University in the country and was invited to stay with a fellow students family in a fairly remote area. A group of 3 boys, 3 girls, they went camping a long way from the homestead one day. The lad who was from the property was driving a pretty rugged old Toyota 4WD. He slipped off a rock and badly injured his back and head. NO radio coverage out there. My daughter was the only person in the group who could drive a manual so she and another girl drove for miles (into the dark), to get back to the homestead to raise an alarm whereupon the lad was finally helicoptered out by paramedics. 30 years on, that family still sends her a Christmas card every year to thank her for her efforts. Manual driving ability saved that boys life.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Paul, howzat work out for Pontiacs then???

They are neither?

but they have diesel torque, and run gasoline.....noidea:

When I was young, we would line up 2 of our cars side by side, and idled along in 4th gear next to each other, and drive slower, and slower, until one of the cars started bucking. If your car was still idling the slowest, without bucking, you won. I won that race a bunch of times with my 65 GTOs.

Simple, if it's a traditional Pontiac it will engage smoothly, if it's a short deck it will engage like a typical big block.

Congradulations on winning the buck & jerk contest

When I was younger me and my brother had a burn out contest on our parents driveway.... Our poor neighbors! Never gave them a thought at that age.

[bdk1976]

Worst decision I ever made was not to convert my '65 to a manual before I put it back together. I still regret it every time I turn the key.

First thing I did when I started working on my '65 post? Weld on the frame tab for the z-bar!

[scott70]

Ever watch vintage in car video of grumpy jenkins or ronnie sox,etc. pound the shifter in the 1/4 mile? If that doesnt get your blood to pumping youre definitely old and sleepy,,,,lol. Thats what its all about,,,classic musclecars that we drove that were fast (for the time) and you too could be a drag racer. The only time I wish my gto was a auto is when I go the drags for bracket racing. Hard to be consistent to the .01 with a manual unless your leaving on a rev limiter,line lock and bullet proof parts. Thats how alot of factory parts got scattered all over the road back in the day,,,people wanting to drive their cars like grumpy. Times have changed but a 4 speed in a classic muscle car will always have the edge over a auto.

[lfdsteve]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

I think that men, going back to the 1960's like to think their car has more power than it does.
To measure that isn't realistic, BUT... BREAKING TRACTION is "quick visible" "proof?"
80% of people who have their ( any V8 engine) rebuilt will have it modified when they only
need some smaller updates. Why? Braging rights? or breaking traction... yeah breaking traction..
Also many MANY folks with a stick shift feel like they have to "help" their engine get the car rolling.
I cite the folks who rev the engine UP and DOWN as they SLIP the clutch in an out. You will see this a LOT on Bikes,
but I saw it many times on musclecars just TWO DAYS ago. Yeah that smell behind the car was.....Clutch DISC.....
In the 70's in high school "Can it burn rubber in second gear" was braging right to its power, NOT the bald bias ply tires ???
That mentality, is Still with the same folks in their 70's TODAY!
I like both auto and stick , but the FUN of a stick ENDS in stop and go traffic, and drag racing clutches "just because I'm in there" is just stupid...

I think anyone that labels anyone else’s preference as “stupid” should really look in the mirror and decide “Is a muscle car really enough for me, or should I have spent the money on a hair transplant and shoe lifts”
This whole idea of “bragging rights “ is just plain silly. It’s a car…