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Old 11-22-2022, 01:56 PM
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Just did a bit of research into the decor pricing and the content of the 400 options as well as the TA:

The decor Group started the model year at $57.93. If you add up the component option prices you get $21.06 for dlx wheelcovers, $15.80 for dlx steering wheel and $5.27 for pedal trim. the wheel opening moldings were not offered separately but they were on Tempests for $15.80. This gives you $57.93, exactly the group price. In December 68 the price of the group increased to $62.14 but now included dual horns which sold for $4.21, again matching the group price exactly. On March 17th the decor group price was unchanged, but the drip moldings were now included in the Decor Group. The drip moldings were actually called decor moldings (on other Pontiacs they would include rocker moldings and/or side window frame moldings) and were never sold outside of the decor group.

However, on that same date all 400 options (400, 400 HO, 400 RA IV, TA) were increased in price by $15.80 (except on convertibles) to reflect the addition of the drip moldings to their content. So, according to factory documents, the result was that on all 400 cars the decor group still cost the excact same as its component options but after March 17th on a Base six, Sprint or either 350 car you were getting a $15.80 discount if you ordered the decor group.

Note; when you ordered the woodwheel or fancier wheelcovers or Rally wheels with the decor group you paid less for those items by the exact same amount as the value of the Decor group wheelcover or steering wheel. For example, the wood wheel was $50.55 but if you ordered it with decor group you paid $34.76, exactly the value of the deluxe steering wheel in the decor group-$21.06.

But there may be another possibility, one that would explain why the decor group was so unpopular on Firebirds. What if wheel opening moldings were actually installed on all 69 Firebirds (you see this on Catalinas in 69, they were supposed to only get rocker moldings with the decor group but I've seen many untouched survivor cars without decor that had rocker moldings (and rocker moldings were not offered separately). Then the decor group would have been actually more expensive than the components which would explain why you see so many Firebirds without decor but with all or most of the component options. The exception is the 400 cars built after March 17th where the decor option was equal to the cost of the components.

So, has anyone ever seen a survivor (original paint) Firebird without wheel opening moldings? Or seen factory or vintage photos of a Firebird without them?

My latest Firebird, an early production base six convertible is a perfect example, it doesn't have the decor option but it was ordered with all the decor component options that were available. Seems like many dealers may have discovered this $15.60 overcharge and ordered cars accordingly.

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1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #22  
Old 11-22-2022, 04:14 PM
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Thanks for the info on your Birds.

The LOR 37 02B B80 did not have the decor group, did it have Roof Drip Rail Scalp molding?


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  #23  
Old 11-22-2022, 05:11 PM
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Any Firebird hardtop built before March 17th would automatically have drip moldings as they were included in the standard equipment until that time so the 02B car would have the drip moldings as standard.

What I’m wondering is if wheel opening moldings, which on paper were never standard equipment were actually installed on all 69 birds.

Confusingly decor moldings (which were only offered as standard equipment early in the run and then as part of the Decor Group or 400 options later in the run ) were separate from wheel opening moldings (also not offered separately) which were also part of the decor group.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #24  
Old 11-22-2022, 07:16 PM
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My 69 Bird has the AEE on the cowl tag.
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Last edited by tekheavy; 11-22-2022 at 07:25 PM.
  #25  
Old 11-22-2022, 07:46 PM
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Firs the pattern, late production hardtop. Nifty that your car is two tone, rare in general but super rare on Firebirds. I’m trying to remember what colors 51 and 50 are?

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #26  
Old 11-22-2022, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Firs the pattern, late production hardtop. Nifty that your car is two tone, rare in general but super rare on Firebirds. I’m trying to remember what colors 51 and 50 are?
Liberty Blue and Cameo White.
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2022, 08:22 PM
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Sweet color combo! Blue guts too!

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #28  
Old 11-22-2022, 09:31 PM
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That is a good looking Bird!



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  #29  
Old 11-22-2022, 09:53 PM
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The whitewalls and hubcaps suit it too.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #30  
Old 11-22-2022, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
The whitewalls and hubcaps suit it too.
Then I better not tell you I bought Rally II's to going on.

  #31  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:03 PM
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Yeah blue w the white is good looking for sure, did that car have white walls factory ? Are they 14x7 wheels? Just curious mine had 14 x 7 wheels no mention of tires on PhS so always wondered what tires it would have had. Redlines white walls etc .


So I’ve never seen muscle collectors PHS but his car has wheel well moldings in the pictures that have been posed on here when it was newer also . Would be interesting to know if they are on his PHS

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  #32  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo69bird View Post
Yeah blue w the white is good looking for sure, did that car have white walls factory ? Are they 14x7 wheels? Just curious mine had 14 x 7 wheels no mention of tires on PhS so always wondered what tires it would have had. Redlines white walls etc .


So I’ve never seen muscle collectors PHS but his car has wheel well moldings in the pictures that have been posed on here when it was newer also . Would be interesting to know if they are on his PHS
My PHS shows F78x14 WW FG with a code of TOR.

  #33  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:23 PM
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Here is my dealer invoice.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:40 PM
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All 69 Firebirds except the base 1 bbl six had 14x7 wheels.

Up to March 17 the standard tire was an F70 wideoval with black wall (except E70 on the base 1bbl 6). A 400 car got you the same tire in red or white line (3/8” stripe). Same Red or white stripe was optional on other models and fiberglass versions of the same were extra cost on all models. These wideoval tires as standard was part of Deloreans plan to differentiate the bird from the camaro.

After that date as part of the base price reduction the base tires became non wideoval E or F 78 tires and the optional white stripe was now normal sized (5/8 or so). The wideovals were still available but now at extra cost. Wide oval tires lowered the car a bit and had more tread width for a given letter size than the normal 78 series tires (hence the wideoval name).

Little bit of trivia, the 67-68 birds sat quite a bit lower than their camaro counterparts thanks to those wideovals and lower springs. In 69 the Firebird was lowered another half inch by using lower springs. They sat so low that in order to maintain suspension travel the 69’s have flattened sections on the axle tubes to allow more space.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #35  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:46 PM
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Your car will look great with Rally wheels too. Neat that it has a 4 speed. You almost never saw 4 speeds on the base 350 LeMans but much more common on Firebirds. You could have a sporty car without necessarily having a muscle car engine. Actually the 2bbl engine and the 4speed make a really pleasant combo for normal driving. The big venturies on the 2bbl give much more immediate response in normal driving than the small primaries of a Qjet.

Now you’ll tell me you’re installing a 4 bbl ;-)

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #36  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Your car will look great with Rally wheels too. Neat that it has a 4 speed. You almost never saw 4 speeds on the base 350 LeMans but much more common on Firebirds. You could have a sporty car without necessarily having a muscle car engine. Actually the 2bbl engine and the 4speed make a really pleasant combo for normal driving. The big venturies on the 2bbl give much more immediate response in normal driving than the small primaries of a Qjet.

Now you’ll tell me you’re installing a 4 bbl ;-)
Lol. I don't have to. Someone put a 400 YS motor in it with a 4bbl. Pretty much the same motor that's in my 68 GTO.

  #37  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:51 PM
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Your car was ordered with fiberglass tires which is why they cost so much extra (typical cost for same size tire in white was $30. Fiberglass usually added another $25. They were supposed to last longer than normal (nylon and or polyester) belted tires but the tread usually wore out before the belts degraded so it was probably a false economy. GM pushed fiberglass belts hard starting in 70 as a safety feature until they gave in to radials in the early 70’s.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #38  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:53 PM
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Nice ride, really love that color scheme and the Firebird body (unlike the 68-72 GTO) looks good with the Cordova top (or two tone).

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #39  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Your car was ordered with fiberglass tires which is why they cost so much extra (typical cost for same size tire in white was $30. Fiberglass usually added another $25. They were supposed to last longer than normal (nylon and or polyester) belted tires but the tread usually wore out before the belts degraded so it was probably a false economy. GM pushed fiberglass belts hard starting in 70 as a safety feature until they gave in to radials in the early 70’s.
Oh ok. I was wondering what the FG stood for. Makes sense now.

  #40  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:57 PM
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And how does one order a 4-speed car without power steering. No power brakes either, which I just recently took care of. Power steering next spring.

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