Non Pontiac Motors in Pontiacs includes factory 403,305,350 Chevy, Buick V6,
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  #1  
Old 12-27-2008, 10:59 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Default LS3/4L70E into 68 Lemans

Since I moved the Lemans into the basement today, I decided to start a thread to document the project. I purchased the Lemans through eBay in April. The car was located about 80 miles from my house so I was able to inspect the car before I bid on it. The condition of the car while not great is also not that bad. The car spent most of its life in a garage, however the shelf between the rear window and the trunk is rusted and there is rust on the quarter panels under the vinyl roof. I am worried about the roof, but until I pull the vinyl I won't know. The floor pan and the trunk floor are not rusted. I purchased the car without an engine. The eBay seller bought the car only for the engine block (matching numbers) for a 68 firebird project he was working on. It looks like the fenders and hood was removed since a number of bolts are missing and nothing comes close to aligning and there are no alignment shims.

EBay Picture - This is before the seller removed the engine and the front end. Why the hood and fenders were painted green with a spray can I don't know. Under the green is the same shade of red.


My plans are to restore the car to have a stock appearing interior and exterior with improvemnets that would not stand out. For the interior I plan on using a radio that supports USB/MP3. No need for CD now that 16GB memory sticks are available. I plan to add power windows, power door locks (electric) and 6 way power seats for both the driver and passenger side, cruise control and a rear view mirror with temperature/compass readout. Other updates include a tilt steering column and a Hurst dual-gate shifter with the mod that supports the 4L60. I plan on using the stock 68 guages and tach.

Exterior Upgrades - I have a GTO hood, GTO tail lights, and Enduro Bumper and hidden head lights to install.


My goal for this project is to create a car that could be used as a daily driver with good street manners. I'm not looking to make this a race only car or have a rock hard ride. If I want that I can drive my 06 GTO. That said I do want to improve the handling over the stock 68 suspension. Perhaps my 06 GTO was modified by its former owner, since its ride is bone jarring and hard cornering produces no body roll. I don't want my Lemans suspension to become like that of my 06 GTO. I want it to be somewhere in between.

  #2  
Old 12-27-2008, 11:11 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Dragging the car into the basement.



I plan on installing the engine and transmission before I do the restoration work. After sorting out the swap problems and making sure the engine and transmisiion are fine, I plan to remove the engine and do a body off frame restoration.

And the LS3 engine.


  #3  
Old 12-28-2008, 02:42 PM
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Nice! Good luck on the project. There are two threads that can help you along the way.

Andrew

  #4  
Old 12-28-2008, 10:03 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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I took a few hour today and pulled the front end. It's clear that the front end had been removed since bolts were either missing or loose. Total time to remove the front end was slightly more than two hours.



Major parts that I have for this are:

GM LS3 crate engine 430HP
4L70E (Has shipped, due next week)
Speartech Harness and computer
Edelbrock Engine swap mounts
LS series gas tank - Rick's Hot Rod Shop
Autokraft Oil Pan
Radiator with electric fans




Although I have quite a bit of the suspension/front end parts, i'm not going to install any of them until after getting the engine installed and running.


I have Global West tubular Negative Roll A-arms. These arms use a b-body spindle and rotors or 1LE rotors (5-4.75 instead of the b-body 5-5). I don't yet know what coil springs to order. I probably need to wait until I get the engine installed. Then I can weight the car. I am guessing that the car will loose between 200 and 300 pounds when completed. I have orderd Pontiac Rallye II, Steel, Chrome, 16 in.x 7 Wheel Vintiques from Summit. These have been on back order for almost 3 months. Although I wanted the 8" wide wheel the quoted time on the 8" wide wheels was summer 09. I plan on running 255/50/16 on the rear. I'm not sure what will fit the front.

  #5  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:33 PM
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ponjohn ponjohn is offline
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Nice project. One I hope to take on for a 69.

does anyone know of or have pictures of a late model dash installed in an A-body?
I know it is real common among F-bodies.

John

  #6  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:02 PM
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MUCHMETAL MUCHMETAL is offline
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Default NICE...

Looks like you have a good start. I have a similar project. A 68 LeMans with LS1/4L60E, a Firebird dash, wiring, gauges and center console. One of these days it will be finished. Right now it's out getting rear quarters and outer wheelouses installed. It had LOTS of rust, so it has been a long haul (Damn Ohio winters). There's a link to the build pics in my sig. Any questions, just ask.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ponjohn View Post
does anyone know of or have pictures of a late model dash installed in an A-body?
I know it is real common among F-bodies.

John
ponjon...Here are a few pics of what I've done so far with my dash. It's a work-in-progress, so it's still a little rough around the edges. I'm currently working on the removable dash top panel that goes between the Firebird dash and the LeMans windshield.

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...view=slideshow

Tony

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1998 GOLD Pontiac Firebird Formula HT, M6
1968 Pontiac LeMans Convertible
1968 Pontiac Lemans HT - Frame-off restomod with LS1 transplant
1955 Pontiac Chieftain - 2 Dr Wagon - Newest project
2008 Chevy Silverado 4X4 - Daily driver
  #7  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:34 PM
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ponjohn ponjohn is offline
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Tony-

Looks great in there.
How wide is the space and how wide is the dash?

I thought maybe a full size truck dash might work too.

John

  #8  
Old 12-30-2008, 09:34 PM
jsn829 jsn829 is offline
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Cool project, doing the same with my 70 lemans sport. Are the edelbrock engine mounts beter than the brp mounts? I was going to use there mounts and crossmember.

  #9  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:09 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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The BRP mounts require you to figure out where to mount the engine by trial and error and then either drill holes or weld the mounts in. It does not bolt to your existing holes. I didn't know this until after I received their kit and decided that using the BRP would take too much effort to install. BTW I have the BRP mounts and crossmember. PM me if you want to purchase.

  #10  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:45 AM
jsn829 jsn829 is offline
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Thanks for the info. So if the edelbrock mounts use the existing holes in the frame, do they make a crossmember for the trans also? what are you thinking about using? Do you have to cut the frame to make the engine fit with these mounts? Ive seen people have to do this.


Last edited by jsn829; 12-31-2008 at 09:57 AM.
  #11  
Old 12-31-2008, 08:47 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Edelbrock does not make a crossmember. I think it is possible to move the stock crossmember and re-drill the frame. Information about crossmembers for automatic A-body conversions seems scarce since almost all of the conversions I have read about used a manual transmission. The down side of the Edelbrock engine mounts is that you need to relocate the AC compressor or notch the frame. At least this is what most people say. I will be doing a test fit soon. (When my 4L70E arrives) You are able to keep the AC in the stock location with the BRP kit. The BRP kit will also allow you to use a less expensive oil pan.

As soon as my transmission arrives I will find out about relocating the stock crossmember.

  #12  
Old 01-05-2009, 01:21 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Since my transmisison didn't shown up I stripped the vinyl top. The roof looks like it can be saved without replacing it. There are a few rust pits along the roof where the vinyl seam was on both sides. However these pits are not that deep. It looks worse in the picture than it is. The black spots are the rust pits. not holes.



However the quarters are bad. This was expected as I had already purchased full quarters and the rear window tray. The quarters are also rusted around the wheel opening.



The amazing thing is the trunk floor is not rusted at all.


Here is the speartech wiring harness.



The pedal didn't come with a bracket like the GMPP kit does. Do any of you know it the GMPP pedal bracket can be ordered seperately and what the part number is ?

  #13  
Old 01-06-2009, 12:34 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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I got my cruise control stalk today. This should look great and not stand out in the 68 interior. I would have liked to use a 68 cruise control stalk, but it doesn't have the necessary switches to work. Pontiac used a on-off switch on the dash and just a push botton on the end of the turn signal lever. I'm not even sure Pontiac installed cruise control in a GTO till 69.


  #14  
Old 01-06-2009, 11:20 AM
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455HOGT37 455HOGT37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbrown View Post
I have Global West tubular Negative Roll A-arms. These arms use a b-body spindle and rotors or 1LE rotors (5-4.75 instead of the b-body 5-5). I don't yet know what coil springs to order. I probably need to wait until I get the engine installed. Then I can weight the car. I am guessing that the car will loose between 200 and 300 pounds when completed. I have orderd Pontiac Rallye II, Steel, Chrome, 16 in.x 7 Wheel Vintiques from Summit. These have been on back order for almost 3 months. Although I wanted the 8" wide wheel the quoted time on the 8" wide wheels was summer 09. I plan on running 255/50/16 on the rear. I'm not sure what will fit the front.
I think you may have trouble getting the 255 rubber on a 7 inch rim. I think the 255 needs a 8 inch minimum (and even that is small). With big tall tires, it's not so much of a problem, but the low sidewall is pretty intolerant of the wrong rim size. Better make sure your tire manufacturer approves the combo. Years ago I did a 68 GTO with a similar suspension, wheel tire package as you have. I used 16x8 Centerlines and the 255/50 Comp TA rubber. All had 5 inch back space and would not rub on the front (though I had a 2nd gen T/A steering box, so steering stops are different).

  #15  
Old 01-06-2009, 10:10 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Ideally a 8" rim would be my choice but Wheel Vintiques appears to have no interest in making them although they appear in their catalog. However my 7" wide wheels are now 5 weeks over due and no longer have a estimated delivery date. I didn't want 15" wheels since almost every tire I find has only a S or T speed rating. There are many tires available for 16" wheels with Z or W speed rating. As to fitting a 255/50/16 on the 7" wide rim, every tire that I looked at stated wheels with a 7-9" range. One of my thoughts was to use 245/50/16's front and rear. My brake/suspension upgrade is now in limbo since discs are not going to work with the 14" wheels that are now on the car. I want a Ralley II type of wheel and not an aftermarket wheel. The 17" Wheel Vintiques Ralley II wheels doesn't really look like a Pontiac wheel and a set of them would be more than $2000. It looks like I'm SOL on the wheels at the moment.

  #16  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:31 PM
jsn829 jsn829 is offline
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fbrown, did you have a chance to test fit the engine yet? Im about to test fit my 04 gto engine trans in my 70 lemans sport. I have the brp mounts but im wondering if the edelbrock long tube headers are going to fit with the engine sitting higher. I will post some pics soon.

  #17  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:49 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Not yet, my transmission has not arrived. It failed it's road test and my builder had to order replacements parts from GM.

  #18  
Old 02-08-2009, 04:18 PM
jsn829 jsn829 is offline
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fbrown, I see you are going with the autokraft oil pan. Do you think there pan will fit better than the lh8 pan?

  #19  
Old 02-08-2009, 06:45 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Others have reported that it fits better than the LH8 (doesn't hang as low). I hope to be able to do a test fit next weekend. My transmisison shipped last week.

  #20  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:22 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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It was not a good weekend for the trial fit of the engine/transmisison/oil pan. I didn't realize that the LS1/4L70E bolts to the oil pan. ALthough my autokraft pan looks like it will clear the crossmember, the lack of support for transmission makes me think there is a good chance of breaking the transmission bell housing. The only option I can think of is to have Street and Performance modify my GM LS3 oil pan. All of the other choices appear to hang too low or not clear the crossmember.

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