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Old 05-06-2022, 09:47 AM
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cleveweld cleveweld is offline
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Default Pontiac Assembly Line

The early Tempests were built on the same assembly line as full size. The first picture shows Tempest front and rear sub-frames. Notice all of the unpainted parts including upper & lower front control arms, front and rear brake backing plates and rear brake drums. Apparently they painted, or attempted to paint these parts after assembly.
The second picture shows the 3-spd trans-axle pulled out of Mickey Thompsons new 1962 LeMans and dumped behind his shop. Notice all of the parts that were painted after assembly including, control arms, axles and u-joints, brake backing plates and half of the brake hoses.
So would this be the way to do a proper restoration on an early tempest? My Safari would be considered over restored.
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Old 05-06-2022, 09:59 AM
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Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
Apparently they painted, or attempted to paint these parts after assembly.
Correct. There was a small paint both before body drop where the completed chassis received a spattering of "chassis black".

The chassis black was a really thin, watery "paint" that was drizzled in the general direction of the chassis as it went by. The operator shot from above, so the top outboard surfaces received the most paint, with the bottom surfaces and inboard surfaces generally missing out because that would take too much effort to bend over or reach around 500 times per day.

(Oldsmobile in Lansing plant, shown as an example)



Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
So would this be the way to do a proper restoration on an early tempest? My Safari would be considered over restored.
Depends on what you want.

If you want to restore it as it was built back in the day, with half a$$ed paint application on the chassis, hairs and hand prints in the exterior paint, solvents left on the body and the paint sprayed over it, and giant/mismatched body fits, then yes.

If you want to restore it to design intent, where there would be uniform paint coverage and optimized body fits, then no.

K
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Last edited by Keith Seymore; 05-06-2022 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 05-06-2022, 10:08 AM
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For anyone not familiar with the assembly process the "Made in Pontiac" series, written by forum member Eric White (RIP) is an indispensable resource.

Eric interviewed an employee that worked in the Pontiac Michigan facility in the mid 1960's and captured his recollections. Eric created maps and process flow diagrams to help with the reader's understanding and provide documentation for posterity.

Although specific to the Pontiac location there would be similarities to other assembly locations as well.

"Made in Pontiac" series
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286562979
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286562979
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286562979
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286562979
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286562979

It has appeared in Smoke Signals and is on several locations on the internet.

K

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Last edited by Keith Seymore; 05-06-2022 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 05-06-2022, 10:15 AM
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(I'm sorry - this might be overkill, but since I am here):

The Camaro Research Group also has an excellent over view of the F car build. Written by John Z Hinckley (who was part of the original product launch) is is the best overview I have been exposed to (and has dissuaded me from writing my own because I sense I can not improve upon it).

It was written to capture the detail for Camaro enthusiasts but since they were built down the same line the Firebird nameplate would be covered as well. And, again, since the processes were similar there can be inferences made that could apply to Pontiac Michigan, particularly related to the fact that both the F car and the Tempest were unibody (not full frame) construction.

http://camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

John appears in this famous photo, in the white shirt (back to camera):

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Last edited by Keith Seymore; 05-06-2022 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 05-06-2022, 10:27 AM
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Thanks for the response Keith! I'm just kind of surprised that GM didn't try to paint all of the parts before assembly.
I think most people would want to see an early Tempest restored the way I did it as apposed to factory.
I imagine that there are a lot of over restored cars out there.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2022, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
Thanks for the response Keith! I'm just kind of surprised that GM didn't try to paint all of the parts before assembly.
I'm sure it comes down to cost, one way or another.

Some components were facilitized to be painted (like wheel inners or radiator supports) and others were not. It would cost too much to put paint booths in every Tier 1 or Tier 2 supplier location that didn't already have it.

Plus the cost of the paint itself. As a self respecting enthusiast I tried like heck to get them to paint the brake drums, front spindles and brake calipers when I first joined truck engineering and they wouldn't do it, due to cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
I think most people would want to see an early Tempest restored the way I did it as apposed to factory.
I imagine that there are a lot of over restored cars out there.
Absolutely (on both counts).

K

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Old 05-06-2022, 10:41 AM
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I assume that back then, the chassis paint was more for appearances than anything else - if a prospective buyer glanced inside the engine compartment or behind a wheel, they'd see a (mostly) uniform black finish. GM didn't expect them to crawl underneath and inspect individual components in great detail, and if the underside of the control arms got surface rust in a year or two that was not their concern.

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Old 05-12-2022, 11:12 AM
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Default Assembly Line Related

An employee would spray black paint in each inner fenderwell.
The last 2 digits of cars serial number was written on drivers cowl for easy ID as it came down assembly line.
Trans-axle differentials were stamped in 2 places with a letter indicating gear ratio but were also marked with color paint in 2 places for easy ID. The yellow paint indicates 3:55 gears.
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Old 02-06-2023, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
(I'm sorry - this might be overkill, but since I am here):

The Camaro Research Group also has an excellent over view of the F car build. Written by John Z Hinckley (who was part of the original product launch) is is the best overview I have been exposed to (and has dissuaded me from writing my own because I sense I can not improve upon it)
...
I'm reading John Z Hinckley's F body overview. It's excellent. The explanation of process and material flow in the system is great.

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Old 02-07-2023, 10:56 AM
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Cost factors and length of warranty have to be the driving factors in considering what parts/components are going to receive paint, other rust treatments and appearance enhancements. This certainly continues today. Current new cars like a 2022 Mustang GT, a $50,000.00 car has a completely unpainted rear axle assembly and attaching components. Just had one in here for it's 2nd oil change. Dripping rust everywhere from the rear underside already. Really sad. During my time at a Pontiac Dealer as a technician, 1979-1981. We had many vehicles that had to go to the body shop for major paint work before delivery to the customer. I remember a fleet sale of Pontiac Sunbirds, about 50 vehicles, that had to have most of them re-painted below the beltline. Paint so very thin that primer was showing through on almost all of them. Factory sent an inspector who authorized our dealer to paint all of them. They were green for the local power company. (DP&L)..

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Old 02-07-2023, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu View Post
I'm reading John Z Hinckley's F body overview. It's excellent. The explanation of process and material flow in the system is great.
Building a million of anything is pretty easy.

Building the first couple is the hard part.

K

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Old 02-07-2023, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
The last 2 digits of cars serial number was written on drivers cowl for easy ID as it came down assembly line.
One very minor nit to pick, that I just noticed:

It was not the last two digits of the car's serial number, but the last two (or three) digits of the assembly sequence number. The vehicle VIN and the build order would not be the same except in the event of an extraordinary coincidence.

For example, the VIN on my truck ends in "xxx377" but the build sequence number as written on the hood, fender, rad support and grille is "87". This would be short for some longer complete sequence number like '317887".

K

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'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
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Old 02-07-2023, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
One very minor nit to pick, that I just noticed:

It was not the last two digits of the car's serial number, but the last two (or three) digits of the assembly sequence number. The vehicle VIN and the build order would not be the same except in the event of an extraordinary coincidence.

For example, the VIN on my truck ends in "xxx377" but the build sequence number as written on the hood, fender, rad support and grille is "87". This would be short for some longer complete sequence number like '317887".

K
Hey Keith, The number they wrote on cowl "20" is the last 2 digits of serial #.
The cars build sequence # is 3228. The full serial # is stamped on cars rear sub-frame.
I can understand why your truck has the sequence # on parts for ease of assembly.
Greg
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  #14  
Old 02-07-2023, 04:04 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
An employee would spray black paint in each inner fenderwell.
The last 2 digits of cars serial number was written on drivers cowl for easy ID as it came down assembly line.
Trans-axle differentials were stamped in 2 places with a letter indicating gear ratio but were also marked with color paint in 2 places for easy ID. The yellow paint indicates 3:55 gears.
I think I posted it in your build thread..... Your restoration is fantastic. Never hurts to say it again. Hope to see it in person some day.

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Old 02-07-2023, 05:26 PM
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There’s a 396 a camaro on yenko.net that has 9k mikes on it and some great pictures of it on that thread although I think more detail pictures will pop up as well.

I wish I’d of the RAIV bird guys w low mile cars original (won’t mention any names) would share some pics too.

I have a bunch of pics of a 400ho low mileage car as well I’ll post when I find the pics I have

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Old 02-07-2023, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveweld View Post
Hey Keith, The number they wrote on cowl "20" is the last 2 digits of serial #.
The cars build sequence # is 3228. The full serial # is stamped on cars rear sub-frame.
I can understand why your truck has the sequence # on parts for ease of assembly.
Greg
Interesting. I've never seen that done before, in 40 years and 12 different GM plants. I've even written a bunch of those myself.

Normally nobody cares about the VIN/serial number in the assembly plant. It's the general assembly sequence number that is the gold source.


K

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'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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