[mrennie]

Hello,

Being a "GTO guy", I have very little knowledge on F bodies, other than i think i want one

I am considering picking up a rolling chassis second gen, as a basis for building a dedicated bracket car when I get closer to retiring in a few years. My first choice would be to find a 77 or 78, but these seem harder to find up here and most have a lot of rust, or are restored which is not what I need. However, I have come across several decent 79-80-81's rollers, and a 76 just showed up fairly close to me that I will check out tomorrow.

Which brings me to my questions:

-Is there any significant difference structurally between the 76, 77-78, and 79+ cars? Assume all have no T tops (I am intentionally avoiding a T top car).

-Are there any differences between these years as far as rust issues?

-What are the common areas to watch out for (such as, on GTO's like mine, the fender bottoms and rear window corners rot out, what are the equivalent issues for second gen F bodies)?

-Is there anything (other than looks), that I should consider when choosing between comparable 76-81 cars?


Look forward to your feedback and thanks in advance.

[TAKerry]

To build a race car I dont think there are any differences in the cars you mentioned. 79 was a banner year so there should be more of them than the others to choose from. 81 had few cars made compared to other years. The 80 81 had smaller motors and the grandfather of a computer system but with a new motor that makes no diff. The biggest diff between 76-81 is the front end and the rear panel for the tail lights. I think the nose piece on 79-81 may be a bit more aero effiecient than 76-78. Interior differences are minor. Big difference between the years are the motor choices. 75-81 are pretty much the same, different nose piece and tailights changed a little over the years. 75 will be much harder finding front end trim parts. 74 is a one year only, it has the same small back window as the 70-73 but the 75 style front end. Again this one will be a bit harder finding some parts. 70-73 are more or less the same but are commanding higher prices than the later models now.

[johnta1]

I'd also say that the water based paint cars will probably have more rust.
But, by this time it would be obvious?

[mrennie]

Much appreciated, that is good info.

TAKerry, you mentioned the 75 front end parts are harder to find. Does that go for the 76 as well?

Thanks

[Warren Seale]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I'd also say that the water based paint cars will probably have more rust.
But, by this time it would be obvious?

I believe that the Van Nuys factory used water based paint. Norwood continued with solvent based paint.

[TAKerry]

I think the 75 had a one year only bumper, although it may have shared with the 74. As far as I know there are no repros for the front rubber. Only way to get them is original, and most of those are trash. 76 does not have that problem.

[TAKerry]

Most likely applies to all of the fbodies, but:
Floors are prone to rust.
Frame rails can be rusty. If they are find another car.
Bottom of A pillar can be rusty, as well as windshield surround.
Top of cowl in front of windshield can be rusty.
Cannot see unless the fender is off but the lower cowell bottoms are prone to rust.
Area around back window bottom can be rusty.

Lots of areas to rust on these cars but you can find ones that are not too bad. Most of the rust issues can be fixed easily enough, but I would walk away if the rear frame rails are bad.

[Skip Fix]

Mani differences are body panels particularly nose and tail. Tail is the same until 79-81. Nose and matching front spoilers also changed then.
79-81 rear discs were an option. 79-80 used a cast iron master cylinder . 81 went to an aluminum "quick take up MC with a bigger register and booster for the "low drag" calipers they started that year. 81 also used a different size upper A arm bushing.

My 78 TA the water base started wearing off between the T tops and left sail and quarter panel right after it was out of warranty!

Bottom of fenders front and back common rust spots.

[mrennie]

Thank you both, this is very helpful.

[unruhjonny]

I believe that the 1974 & 1975 bumpers and bumper covers interchanged;
I believe that original 1974 bumpers were made so that the "bumperette" portions could be unbolted, while the 1975 bumpers couldn't.
The biggest problem with 74/75 front ends is the rubber filler between the fiberglass upper portion and plastic lower bumper cover.
If my memory serves me, that filler became a part of the 1976 (lower) rubber bumper cover.
The upper fiberglass header panel, although quite alike, differ slightly between 74/75 & 76.

I also believe that the 1976 though 1978 bumper under structure (and filler) interchange even though the cover was 1976 & 1977/1978.

I also believe that (for clarity's sake) the quarter panels, trunk floor and rear sheet metal are the same for 1975 through 1981.

depending on where the car is from, the rust can start in different areas - but generally inspect the rear leafspring boxed frame sections under the floor, and then inspect the frame rail as it goes up the rear wheel well, and to the rear tail panel;

Also inspect the rockers, especially where they connect to the quarter panel - there was a rubber flap at the wheel well that could get stuck closed, and then cause debris to collect, and start the rotting process.

After those, there is another rubber flap at the fronts of the inner rocker - this one could get stuck, and cause debris to collect there - in addition to this being the front rocker drain, it is also the front cowl drain.

[mrennie]

Well, the inspection of the 76 was bittersweet. Story was that it had been in storage for at least 10 years, then bought by a guy in his 30's, kept in storage for another 5 years, then he passed away recently and the storage owner took it over for storage fees.

It was on a hoist when I first got there, front frame was fine, rear frame sections also good, no flaking rust or pinholes, just typical light surface rust. Rad support also good except for some rust flaking at far ends at bottom, nothing that would need replacing. Had 4 aluminum turbine style wheels in decent shape, and almost new 255/60R-15 Mickey Thompson tires. Things were looking good...

Lowered car onto the ground and started looking at outside real close. Bottom of both front fenders has rust bubbles and would need patching (I can live with that.) As I moved back, I could see many areas from doors to back bumper that had cracks in the paint but no visible rust. Looked closer and realized there was filler over everything from the doors back...like from the window weatherstripping right down to the rocker, and entire quarters from bottom of back glass to bottom of quarter. Current owner said he realized there was filler but had no history on what was going on. Seems odd to me as the bottom of the car was good (only found 2 small spots with rust through on the floor, about the size of a dime), and based solely on the underside condition, I would have been comfortable pulling the trigger. Car was a base Firebird or Esprit (no rear spoiler), and hood was a steel hood with twin scoops like a Formula, but PO had cut a massive hole in the middle to fit one of those face blower assemblies. Uhg..

The inside was a whole other level...PO has recovered everything, I mean everything, in blue velour. Seats, dash, console, inside glovebox even...It was so swanky that if I bought the car I would probably leave it, but the top of the dash has discolored and looked like crap.

Currently has a BBC 454 and TH350, that owner is removing prior to sale. He is asking 4K CAD for rolling chassis and as this is the first car I actually looked at, I told him I am passing for now, at least until I see what else it out there. If the car had no filler on it and I could see it needed, say, fenders patched, quarters patched, then I might have gone for it, but the fact that there is something going on with every panel but the roof or trunk, my gut is telling me to walk. I am fully aware of what it takes to replace panels and do bodywork, and while I am not expecting to find a rust-free roller, I need to ensure I stick to my plan and make this about building a drag car and not about restoring another parts car

Hoping I am not being unrealistic...Ontario has used salt forever, and these cars are 40+ years old. It has been a Long time since I bought a used car, my expectations may be out of whack...I guess I will find out after looking at a few more.

Have plans to check out a 79 next week while down south on business. Fingers crossed!