[dataway]

I'm going to have to pull my starter to install the excellent new Ames engine mounts ( to replace my unused parts store garbage) so I was down there looking at the situation.

I need to hook up the wires from my new engine harness to the OEM type starter ... holy crap that looks like a pain in the butt, I know I've done it when I was a kid more than once .. heck I can barely see the wire terminals. On the test stand it was way easier. At the very least it looks like the exhaust pipe has to come off.

So I'm thinking of just springing for a mini-starter. Greg I read your excellent thread on your recent purchase. Any additional thoughts at this point? Can it be clocked with the cables on the bottom of the starter? Would you still get the IMI if you had to do it again? Are you using an OEM flexplate/flywheel? I'm wondering about the tooth engagement issue.

I just don't think I can leave that monstrosity of an OEM starter on there.


And .... One of the bolts on my exhaust manifold flange is very difficult to get to .. wondering if this is normal on a 68. I actually had to cut the stud off some so I can get a wrench on it .... it's very close to the frame piece that supports the rear of the lower control arm. Am I just being a pansy, or is this normal (see photos). Manifold is a genuine 9779032 OEM piece. It's like it is clocked wrong or something.

I ask because in Greg's starter thread I saw in the photos his exhaust hook up and it looked way easier to get to than mine. It's worse than it looks in the photo, the exhaust flange on the pipe actually overlaps the top of part of the frame. In the photo it looks like you can just put a socket on it, you can't ... well you can, but just the socket, the extension runs into the frame. I have to do it with an open end wrench turning about 20 degrees at a time. If it was clocked about ten degrees clockwise you could easily slide a socket on both nuts, easy pesy.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

I usually lower the starter to take wires off and on.

Wobble socketts usually work on those flange nuts.

Clay

[Half-Inch Stud]

I feel that. My Delco Hi-TQ is protected by headers.

My engine harness has a "service length" to allow the starter to land on the ground with wires attached. Really a good ting.

I think your starter will jockey out just fine after the 2 bolts are out. And if so, the front support bolt (i rarely use) can be tough to access or use a long extension deal to reach from the PS zone.

[Greg Reid]

My lower flange is cast and does not have that skirt that shrouds the nut on yours. I believe I got them from performance years when I did my exhaust and the ram air manifolds.

Yes dataway I would definitely buy it again. I love it. As for the wire position, I think you could probably rotate it that far. I was more concerned with getting that lug as far away from the exhaust as I could so mine is mounted with the connections facing the oil pan. I
It is why I chose the IMI as a matter of fact. Because of the connections being on that side.


By the way, I was able to remove both of those connections without dropping the starter just a few days ago. The solenoid wire is a plug-in and can be removed if your fingers are fairly long like mine just by pressing in on the side of the plug and pulling back on it. To plug it back in I used a long hemostat to guide it into the socket, then press it in with a finger. It'll snap in place when it's seated. The big lug can be removed with an open end wrench. Of course you can clock it to make it easier to get to than mine but even with mine facing the oil pan I can get to it.

As to flex plate to pinion gear engagement, I have been troubleshooting that... The pinion would come out and just hit the flex plate but not engage the teeth...so l finally got it to fail when I was in a position to check the voltage on it. (That's how I know I can unplug it without dropping the starter).
This is getting into the ignition switch issue that we spoke about on the other thread.... When I finally was able to check voltage I realized that my so-called pinion to flex plate misalignment was actually an intermittent low voltage, 5 volts. The solenoid needs a good kick to seek its way into flexplate engagement apparently.
A little off topic but l continue, I replaced the entire solenoid wire from IMIs factory plug to about 8 inches from the firewall where I put in a spade connector. The starter hasn't missed a lick since so the problem may have been somewhere in old wire... Anyway, the reason for the spade connector is that if it does it again, l will be able to open the circuit there and check the voltage from ground to the switch solenoid wire itself. If it's low there I have an ignition switch to swap.

One final thought. This starter is so easy to change that I wouldn't worry about wire position as it regards access. Since I know that you have it on a Quickjack it's about as labor intensive as changing your battery and it only rises to that level because you have to be lying on your back to do it.. That alone is enough for me to buy it again.

[dataway]

Thank you for the update. Good enough for me, I'll go with the IMI. I have a brand new engine harness so hopefully there won't be any voltage issues. Kind of hate to modify it already though

Jeez, yet another practically unused part I'm going to swap out for a different new part. No wonder people end up with so many spares.

[Greg Reid]

The only mod I think that you will have to make to that harness is to snip the ring terminal off of the solenoid wire and replace it with that plug included with the IMI starter.

[will slow gto]

Data, are you sure you want to run that positive battery cable through the tube next to the exhaust manifold? I ordered the longer ‘Ram Air’ positive cable based on advice from folks who frequent this 68-69 page.

[Greg Reid]

When I switched to the ram air manifolds I moved that tube to the ground wire stud on the driver side head. I run the positive battery cable down through that tube and alongside the engine block over the crossmember near the motor mount to the starter. It runs through a 1-inch diameter heat shield that I bought from Summit Racing.
Not stock but only noticeable if someone knows what they're looking at and they're really looking at it.

[dataway]

Since I have not yet purchased my "final" battery cable I could easily make that change. It was basically run that way on the stand using whatever cable I had on hand at the time.

Another addition to my to-do list.

Thanks guys,

[Sidponcho]

I've always wanted to design a quick connect in the starter harness to avoid dealing with the tight space!!

[AG]

Originally Posted by Sidponcho

I've always wanted to design a quick connect in the starter harness to avoid dealing with the tight space!!

This is what I do and eliminates all issues.

[Entropy11]

I went with the PowerMaster XS mini-starter mainly because I was having issues with other mini starters not having the “reach” or “throw” that I needed with my PRW flywheel. The XS had the largest printed spec value I could find for pinion stick-out when comparing all the brands I could find with internal shims/spacers removed (not talking about the external mounting shims regarding tooth mesh).

The negative with the PowerMaster XS in my case revolves around the side they chose to mount the terminals on. No matter how I orient or clock it, those terminals are always on the outboard side of the engine facing my RA manifolds/down pipes. The higher end PowerMaster’s have the terminals facing rearward which I would prefer. The IMI appears to have the terminals on the inboard side facing the block/oil pan. That would be nice.

I ended up going with these for battery cables. I was more concerned with durability than OE appearance and loved these custom made ones in particular on other cars. Double jacketed and they still route more like welding leads than traditional battery cables.

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/extreme-battery-cable

I ordered Wednesday afternoon and they showed up to my house in NY Friday morning. Just throwing that out there because you mentioned cables!

[dataway]

Thanks for that link ... being a welder for many years I absolutely HATE stiff cables of any kind, you get spoiled using nice high strand count welding cables.

I probably will go with some of those, they look very nice. What ga did you use?

Prices seem extremely reasonable .... I priced a 2/0 cable, 24" long, 3/8 terminal and positive terminal ... it was like $21 ?

[vertigto]

Yep...www.batterycablesusa.com has some good stuff for not a lot of coin. Got my cables from them...very flexible.

[Entropy11]

I think I used 2 AWG. Definitely bigger than factory yet not big enough to look out of place.

I really can’t say enough good things about that place. On top of it all they’re prices are great.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Entropy11

The IMI appears to have the terminals on the inboard side facing the block/oil pan. That would be nice.

That's correct and is exactly the reason I leaned towards that brand. Since they all seem to have good reviews that was a deciding factor for me.

[Entropy11]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

That's correct and is exactly the reason I leaned towards that brand. Since they all seem to have good reviews that was a deciding factor for me.

Yep, I really wish I would have thought it through like you did. I just figured “clock it wherever you want” and it’ll be all good. Haha. Not exactly. I’m still finalizing my exhaust so haven’t run the leads to the starter yet. I do know it’s closer than I’d choose to have it. Maybe I’ll fab a little carbon fiber shield if it looks sketchy.

I’m definitely going with the IMI or some rear terminal mini-starter on the next engine I have on the way.

[dataway]

Got my IMI installed tonight, a couple of observations. On my GTO with OEM logs, and OEM style exhaust it can only really be clocked in one place, with the terminals facing the oil pan. Can't flip it 180 with the terminals on the bottom, the motor won't fit between the block and the log manifolds. I'm sure this is different with headers and maybe RA manifolds.

I was a bit annoyed to find that the nut on the large terminal could not be removed with the starter installed ... it was trapped between the stud and the oil pan. I solved this by replacing their nut/washer combo with a separate nut and washer. (8mm btw).

Their pig tail for the solenoid was about half the gauge of the purple wire, a bit scary ... spliced it in anyway, very securely and heat shrinked.

My installation required no shims, pinion depth somewhere between .025 and .030, I used some welding tip cleaners between the pinion tooth, and flexplate "V" to check, found the largest one that would fit and mic'd it.

Pinion to flywheel is out of spec at probably 110" (Like yours Greg?), engages flexplate with about 1/16" lacking towards the rear. I'm very tempted to pull it off and put the mount in the milling machine take off about .060". But I guess it's OK where it is from what they told you Greg?

Process went pretty smooth, did the motor mounts at the same time. Replaced the Chinesium mounts with the new improved mounts from Ames ... well they are new, and improved and it would be even better if they fit. Managed to get the left side in after grinding off some flash on the inside of the tabs. The right side .... total pain in the butt. See photo below, holes were no where close to right. They are the right distance apart, but not centered on the tabs correctly, they are shifted too far towards the front.

Few minutes on the milling machine to slot them enough to fit ... probably shouldn't have to do that to mounts that cost 7x as much as the Chinesium that did fit.

Will test the starter when I get my new ignition switch installed.

[Greg Reid]

The retracted pinion to flex plate clearance was a bit over maximum recommended .100" on mine. Chris at IMI told me that it was fine as long as the extended pinion interfaced with at least 70% of the flex plate which mine did.
Sorry to hear that you could not rotate it where you wanted it. I did not foresee that being an issue with the log manifolds. But of course I wanted mine in the position that yours is in now anyway.
I'm pretty sure that I can get that nut off of mine but honestly I did not try to completely remove it I just need it to loosen it to do the troubleshooting I was doing.
I have had mine mounted with up to three shims and down to zero shims. Again, I was trying to troubleshoot a problem that actually wound up being a voltage problem. With that said, it worked under all of those conditions so I guess it's fairly forgiving as far as clearance goes.
I have zero shims at this point and since changing the solenoid wire it has not had a single hiccup.
The post office said that your package should be there Tuesday so I would expect it no later than the following Monday...lol

[OG68]

I also have the Ames motor mounts. They lined right up to the block and bolted in. I also have a set of NOS mounts but decided to give the Ames set a try.