[VCho455]

My 72 base model bird has 71 fenders and a Formula hood (Has the original factory Air screens and boot remnants.). Someone removed all of the fender emblems. (Probably when they swapped the front sheet metal is my guess.) I want to install some emblems to fill the holes.

My question is how do I know which emblems to order? Do they all have the same bolt pattern?

I've done a bunch of searching to no avail. I would like to avoid having to drill and fill holes, or having to buy and then return the wrong emblems.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[Formulabruce]

72 Base and Esprit just said " FIREBIRD" on the front fender.
71 was same.
Do you have the 71 functional fender grills in the fenders?
I am sure I have a set for a 71, grills and emblems, on a fender section

[VCho455]

The fenders have the factory vents. That's how I know they aren't original to the car.

The hood is a Formula hood. I know from the numbers the car is a base model and the hood is not original.

The hood has been completely stripped and repainted flat black so I can't paint match it with the fenders. So I have no idea if the fenders came from the same car as the hood.

What I want to do is to order emblems that fit the holes already in the fenders. I don't care which ones just so they fit.

[unruhjonny]

the 1971-1981 "Firebird" script emblems are all the same.

How many holes do you have?

If you only have three per side, then you're in luck, in that the most common fender badge will suit you just fine.

If you have more, that's where it may get complicated.

Another option might be to get some colour matched vinyl, and have it from the body line down - then all the holes get covered up;
You could add a pin stripe to cover the edge of the vinyl.

[VCho455]

So I have 3 holes in each fender. So I can use either one of these emblems?

[unruhjonny]

Hmm, I was pretty sure that 1971 Formulas still used the "Firebird" script along with the Formula badge.

The stud placement is different for each badge.

You have shown that you can add images to a post, maybe you could snap pictures of the holes you have so that we could help out.

Or another idea, do it like they did in the 1990's;
Cut off the mounting studs, use 3m tape, and stick what ever badges you want over the holes!

[VCho455]

As requested.

['ol Pinion head]

Last pics shows a rh '71 fender for std Firebird = 3 holes. Just use the Firebird fender emblems & you will be fine. Since the mid 80's, have parted over half a dozen '71 Firebirds. Most were fairly clean Esprits with decent original fenders, every nice straight fender left here for restorers of '71 Formula HO's, one for a Formula 400.

[VCho455]

Thank you and everyone else for their help.

[unruhjonny]

OPH always has great advice.

That absolutely looks like holes for a regular 71-81 "Firebird" script badge.

The Formula badges used larger studs, and the spacing is different.

If your measurements look anything like this, then I'd get a set of the most common 2nd generation badge out there.



The stud just behind the "F", and over the "E" are just shy of 2" apart.

The stud between the "E" and "D" are just shy of 2-3/4" apart.

[VCho455]

Thank you.

[KenB]

While I completely respect those who answered, I dare say any Fender emblem from 1971 will work. See photo of a 71 Formula 400 emblem on my 71 Esprit, using barrel nuts.

I very much doubt the Stamping plant made different fenders for Firebird, Esprit, and Formulas, as piercing the hole happened there. Then fenders sent to Norwood and Van Nuys, whatever Fender emblem slapped on.


I don’t recall what year the Formula emblems changed font, but whatever change happened if the fender was affected all non- TA fenders would have changed. Maybe that’s what your asking.

And if I’m proven wrong so be it, I recognized who is in this thread.

[unruhjonny]

This is an interesting take on the scenario.

I do not believe that the fenders were stamped, or manufactured with the badge holes drilled;
The assembly manuals show where the holes are to be drilled, so I would think that the holes were drilled on the production line at some point.

But again, you made an intriguing point.

It is worth mentioning that I do not know if the reproduction 1970-1971 "Formula 400" badges use 1970 or 1971 stud placement;
I did pull the single 1971 "Formula 400" badge that I have, and the studs (although larger in size as I mentioned in post #10) appear to be placed in the same location as the "Firebird" (script) badge.

You made me look into this further;
I have latter Formula badges too, and pulled a 1972-1975 "Formula 350" badge, and it too has the studs in the same spot - but these badges use the same sized studs as the 1971-1981 "Firebird" (script) badges.



The top badge is a 1970 "Formula 400" badge;
The following is a 1971 "Formula 400" badge;
The next is a 72-75 "Formula 350" badge;
Lastly is a 1971-1981 "Firebird badge.

The following image is intended to calrify what I have done;
I have aligned the rear most stud on all four badges, and highlighted how they do in fact line up... well, all except for that 1970 badge.



I learned something new today!

[22687]

I'm going to agree with KenB. I think with the 71s and the addition of the vent, Pontiac only had room for either a Firebird or Formula badge. They changed the pin location on the 71 Formula badge from the 1970 so that the pins matched with the Firebird ones. Why else would they have changed the Formula badge? Standardized hole placement would then allow installation of either badge according to model on a prepunched hole pattern

"I do not believe that the fenders were stamped, or manufactured with the badge holes drilled;
The assembly manuals show where the holes are to be drilled, so I would think that the holes were drilled on the production line at some point."

Seriously? You think they had assembly staff standing there with 3/8” Black & Deckers reaming holes into freshly painted virgin fenders as the cars moved down the line? All sorts of room for F ups there I'd bet.

Finally the proof's in the pudding as they say. KenB has done it and your little photo layout prove the badges would interchange.

[unruhjonny]

Where were you last week?
This could have been a single reply post!

It reads as tough you are giving me attitude for trying to help the OP and not knowing how fenders were originally manufactured.

You do realize these cars were built before I was born - right?

[srmmmm]

I made the mistake of ordering some new 1971 "Firebird" emblems for my 1970 Esprit fenders thinking they must be compatible and discovering the pins are in different spots. Had to do a careful polishing on the originals and then touch up the red paint on the original "350" emblems to get the correct install again.

[unruhjonny]

1970 are for sure different.
All the 1970 badges are unique.
The 1970 & 1971 "Formula 400" badges look the same, but have thier mounting studs in different locations.

I do not know if the reproduction 70/71 "Formula 400" badges use 1970 or 1971 stud locations.
The only reproduction fender badges I have had were 1972-1974 "Formula 455" badges.

In 1970, unlike 71-73, base models with a 350 had a fender mounted "350" badge, as did the Esprit with the optional 400.

[VCho455]

Deleted double posting.

[VCho455]

Well thanks again to everybody for all their responses. (Especially unruhjonny for digging out the emblems and posting them. Even I get it now!)
Now I have to decide which emblems to put on the car.

I will add that I've never seen a factory fender that had holes that looked like they were drilled. Every hole has that perfect round punched look with no signs of deburring. If I was to guess each fender was assigned an assembly number associated with the car it was to be installed on as it arrived at the plant.
This discussion indicates Pontiac was more efficient than Chevrolet in regards to emblem interchangeably, likely due to the shared assembly line with Camaros and X-bodies.
The Chevrolet & GMC truck lines had different emblems and locations so there must have been a fender preparation room with the appropriate punches to make the emblem holes before the fender went to the paint line.

Just my opinion, so if you know anywhere that it will get me a cup of coffee, please let me know.