[326HO-Lemans]

Anyone ever hear of late 64 GTOs with factory 326HO motors instead of 389s?
Supposedly they ran out of 389 motors??

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 326HO-Lemans

Anyone ever hear of late 64 GTOs with factory 326HO motors instead of 389s?
Supposedly they ran out of 389 motors??

You have to stop and think this through, if none of the parts manuals (aftermarket, or factory) never had a notation about a GTO with a factory installed 326HO engine in them, it never happened. Also the many consumer agencies would have made it known that you didn't get what you paid for, when you bought your new 64 GTO. If they ran out of engines for the GTO, then the B body cars, that used the same engine as the GTO, would have also run out, they never got any 326 HOs in full size cars either.

Another thing that rings as a lie is they made substantially less numbers of 326 HO engines than they did 389s, where would the surplus have come from since 326 HO engines are about as scarce as hens teeth, and always have been a very low production option.

Pontiac did advertise a 389 engine in 1964, it's what made the GTO the first mass produced original musclecar. A homologation of parts from one car maker, that's what GTO stands for loosely translated. Take an engine intended for the full size car line, and put it in an intermediate chassis. Putting an intermediate engine in an in intermediate chassis is called a Tempest/Lemans.

I've never heard that rumor in all the years I've owned Pontiacs, raced Pontiacs, and made my living working on cars. I've always specialized in working on Pontiacs during the last 50 years and this is the first encounter with that rumor.`

I have run into GTOs with 326s installed after the owner kicked the rods out of the OEM 389 that came in the car, but those cars did originally have a 389.

I'd classify this as an unsubstantiated rumor, that has zero basis on truth.

[JSchmitz]

It would be very hard to believe. But so many weird things happened back then. My '64 GTO was built with a Tempest hood. I would think that's one of one. There's a note at the bottom of the build sheet "*Use standard Tempest hood". I need to figure out where I put my PHS stuff.

[scott06]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

It would be very hard to believe. But so many weird things happened back then. My '64 GTO was built with a Tempest hood. I would think that's one of one. There's a note at the bottom of the build sheet "*Use standard Tempest hood". I need to figure out where I put my PHS stuff.

I think you could do more special ordering back then like this hood. If you can find it on the build sheet I would suspect it was factory.

Another thought may be that the 326 was dealer installed. seemed like dealers would do things like that back in the day, less issue with warranty coverage.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

... My '64 GTO was built with a Tempest hood. I would think that's one of one. There's a note at the bottom of the build sheet "*Use standard Tempest hood". I need to figure out where I put my PHS stuff.

Did it still have a flat hood on the car when you bought it ?
And do you have a flatty on it now ?

This is most likely your GTO Documentation
- or there are 2 of them out there .

With the Hood being the best part of the 64 GTO exterior , it is hard to imagine why they chose that switch. But maybe since the fake hood scoop craze was still so young at that point - it had not grown on that buyer yet.

As far as a "sleepy" aspect - there is nothing noted about delete GTO badges.
So it would have still announced itself as a GTO
They must not have liked the fake scoops - at all

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Did it still have a flat hood on the car when you bought it ?
And do you have a flatty on it now ?

This is most likely your GTO Documentation
- or there are 2 of them out there .

With the Hood being the best part of the 64 GTO exterior , it is hard to imagine why they chose that switch. But maybe since the fake hood scoop craze was still so young at that point - it had not grown on that buyer yet.

As far as a "sleepy" aspect - there is nothing noted about delete GTO badges.
So it would have still announced itself as a GTO
They must not have liked the fake scoops - at all

That might be mine. Don't have my VIN memorized. I'll have to look. My car had a GTO hood on it when I bought it in Springfield, IL in 1985. Also had a 455, different year Muncie, and a Olds 12/10 bolt 3.23 rear. Also had power brakes added, etc. Now I really want to look up my PHS stuff! I think my car was also built with a 3-speed trans. Not sure.

[padgett]

Would make more sense to substitute 421s. We know of at least two that emerged that way. (Red car and blue one ?)

[bdk1976]

Sure - thousands of Lemans were delivered with 326s - the GTO badging was just added 10+ years later and the bull**** stories explaining how it could be a legitimate 'GTO' like this were born.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

Sure - thousands of Lemans were delivered with 326s - the GTO badging was just added 10+ years later and the bull**** stories explaining how it could be a legitimate 'GTO' like this were born.

This^^^^. Same thing as the 'early '67 GTO's with 389's' or 'early '67 GTO's that still had tripower.

Been into these cars since the '70's. Others here since Day One. None of these stories are true. '64 GTO's had 389's in them from the factory, never 326's. Two had 421's that were dealer installed, but we know about them.

[326HO-Lemans]

Info was posted on Facebook OHC group. It was attributed to a Fred Simmonds presentation on weird cars Pontiac built. Fred even commented on the post but didn’t correct it. I thought I might of missed something in the 40yrs I’ve been playing with Pontiacs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 326HO-Lemans

Info was posted on Facebook OHC group. It was attributed to a Fred Simmonds presentation on weird cars Pontiac built. Fred even commented on the post but didn’t correct it. I thought I might of missed something in the 40yrs I’ve been playing with Pontiacs.

Maybe we have missed something , somewhere.
It sounds as though Fred did not object or offer any edits to the statement.
Maybe he has seen some 64 Documentations with 326 4bbl notations.
Obviously none of us are aware of it, or ever seen such an animal or documented example from PHS.

Running out of engines does not sound like a true scenario (imho)
But there could be other explanations to a few exceptions.
Such as the exception with JSchmitz's GTO

[Rich-Tripower]

Not that it is highly relevant here, but the 2005 GTOs were also available to option to the flat hood instead of the hood with scoops. Twelve cars were built this way. I'm going to guess those that still exist probably have had 05/06 hoods swapped onto them by now though.

No clue why anyone then or more recently would have opted away from the scooped hood. Maybe back in the day they had plans to cut a hole in the hood for a big intake or a blower and though it would be easier to cut a flat hood than a scooped hood. Or maybe they just like the look better. People are weird sometimes.

[johnta1]

Did those GTO's have any modified GTO's like the Firebirds had?
Like the ASC conversions, etc?

They had flat hoods installed because they would receive RAM AIR hoods and other mods.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower

...No clue why anyone then or more recently would have opted away from the scooped hood...

My late wife had a 2004 GTO, she commented then that Hondas would try to race her - maybe thinking her GTO was a big Civic? It was bone stock.

They would change their minds and not race or she would flatten them.

[326HO-Lemans]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Maybe we have missed something , somewhere.
It sounds as though Fred did not object or offer any edits to the statement.
Maybe he has seen some 64 Documentations with 326 4bbl notations.
Obviously none of us are aware of it, or ever seen such an animal or documented example from PHS.

Running out of engines does not sound like a true scenario (imho)
But there could be other explanations to a few exceptions.
Such as the exception with JSchmitz's GTO

This is correct. The guy on Facebook was quoting info he heard from Fred at a Pontiac show. Fred chimed in but didn’t speak to the 326Ho in a 64 GTO comment the guy had made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack P.]

PHS would be needed to prove this but as one post shows, a flat hood could be special ordered so what if a 326HO was special ordered, it could happen. Certain dealers had more clout and may have ordered this to race in a certain class.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Jack P.

PHS would be needed to prove this but as one post shows, a flat hood could be special ordered so what if a 326HO was special ordered, it could happen. Certain dealers had more clout and may have ordered this to race in a certain class.

Sure it's possible but that's a lot different scenario than "The factory ran out of 389 engines".. that just plain sounds like one of those BS urban legend type tales.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Sure it's possible but that's a lot different scenario than "The factory ran out of 389 engines".. that just plain sounds like one of those BS urban legend type tales.

Exactly

[Tom Vaught]

My uncle was a Pontiac Dealer for 67 years and he said he never had any problems getting
389 GTO engines in GTOs and 389 engines in full-sized vehicles.

So much BS out there today.

Tom V.

A racer told me one time why would I ever spend a penny more on a GTO for Racing when a Tempest was exactly the same chassis and would package the 400/428/455 engines in the same chassis.

Tom V.

[Chris65LeMans]

Sounds like a story made up by a guy with a 326 in his GTO. "It was made that way from the factory, so that'll be $75,000!"